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Motion to add party? Ohiogal please help if you can! :)

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kik1999

Member
Stand your ground!

I absolutely 100% will. Ya know, if my daughter wanted to have a relationship with her, I would not stand in her way...really, I wouldn't. But a lot has happened since my mom and dad got a divorce, and my daughter simply doesn't want to visit with her, and quite frankly, I don't blame her.

I don't understand how my financial records is relevant. How about my daughter's report cards, attendance records, etc. that show that my daughter is thriving!! And anyway, wouldn't custody go to my ex before it went to her??

Thanks for all of your responses and help. I really cannot thank each of you enough for your help. I've been reading threads here for years and I have learned so much. So when I read her petition and saw that her excuse to go for custody is an eviction and an arrest record 8 years ago that was dismissed, it was hard not to laugh. :D
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
I absolutely 100% will. Ya know, if my daughter wanted to have a relationship with her, I would not stand in her way...really, I wouldn't. But a lot has happened since my mom and dad got a divorce, and my daughter simply doesn't want to visit with her, and quite frankly, I don't blame her.

I don't understand how my financial records is relevant. How about my daughter's report cards, attendance records, etc. that show that my daughter is thriving!! And anyway, wouldn't custody go to my ex before it went to her??

Thanks for all of your responses and help. I really cannot thank each of you enough for your help. I've been reading threads here for years and I have learned so much. So when I read her petition and saw that her excuse to go for custody is an eviction and an arrest record 8 years ago that was dismissed, it was hard not to laugh. :D
Your financial records actually are not relevant to a gpv case. The attorney you hire can likely handle getting all that stopped. Her attorney is attempting you intimidate you into settling the case. Do not let that happen. Also, do not hire an attorney that will try to push you into settling either. You want a judge to have to make a decision based on the merits of the case.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Your financial records actually are not relevant to a gpv case. The attorney you hire can likely handle getting all that stopped. Her attorney is attempting you intimidate you into settling the case. Do not let that happen. Also, do not hire an attorney that will try to push you into settling either. You want a judge to have to make a decision based on the merits of the case.
Too bad you are incorrect about financial records being irrelevant to this case. They very well could be.
 
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Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I was just served yesterday afternoon. My ex still hasn't been served. She has his incorrect address in North Carolina.
Orders without proper jurisdiction are void ab initio. If all parties are not served, the court does not have proper jurisdiction.

Again, my first hearing is on 9/19/12, which is less than 2 weeks away. I'm pretty confused as to what she is actually requesting because on one Memo it states she is requesting visitation/companionship rights and on a completely different Memo she is requesting custody (and on one Memo it states she is filing for Custody AND Companionship).
She needs to clarify issues after proper service. .

The part I am having a hard time with is that she is LYING. On her petition she states that she was our daughter's PRIMARY caregiver from the time she was born until January 2004. Obviously I have proof stating the opposite, although we did live with her for a short time after my divorce because when my ex and I separated. She did pay for my daughter's daycare for a year, but it was like paying a bill...she didn't take care of her by all means. She was married to my dad at that time, so I'm positive my dad would testify that she is lying too. She never claimed her on her taxes or anything. There are so many ways I can prove she wasn't her caregiver.
Make her prove she was the caregiver.

The other issues has mentioned are ridiculous. She says I have had multiple evictions and am unstable. I have had ONE eviction, and it was discharged with my bankruptcy in Jan. 2008.
You still have an eviction. Doesn't mean it never happened. However it was four years ago. When was your divorce?

She also mentions an arrest I had in 2004 for drugs. I was arrested in 2004 because of a roomate, basically it was the wrong place at the wrong time kind of deal (she was in the passenger seat of my car), but that was immediately dismissed against me...there was no trial or anything. And besides, my ex husband was aware of it at the time. That's it.
That is even further removed and matters not.

Because of the eviction thing and the arrest she is stating she is requesting custody? Also, she admits in her petition that she has not had any regular or significant visitation with her since January 2004, and hasn't seen our daughter since 2009.
She can ask for anything.


This is what is included: Notice of two hearings (one on 9/19 and 9/24).
Okay. Is there a summons with the complaint? Did she file a parenting proceeding affidavit?

Notice for HER to take MY deposition on 9/27,
She is allowed to request you be deposed however she has to abide by rule 28 among others:
Rule 28. Persons Before Whom Depositions May be Taken


(A) Depositions within state.Depositions may be taken in this state before: a person authorized to administer any oath by the laws of this state, a person appointed by the court in which the action is pending, or a person agreed upon by written stipulation of all the parties.
So who is going to be administering the oath? You have a right to request that information. Stipulate to NOTHING. Does she have an attorney? Also see this rule:
Rule 30. Depositions upon oral examination


(A) When depositions may be taken.After commencement of the action, any party may take the testimony of any person, including a party, by deposition upon oral examination. The attendance of a witness deponent may be compelled by the use of subpoena as provided by Civ. R. 45. The attendance of a party deponent may be compelled by the use of notice of examination as provided by division (B) of this rule. The deposition of a person confined in prison may be taken only by leave of court on such terms as the court prescribes.

(B) Notice of Examination; General Requirements; Nonstenographic Recording; Production of Documents and Things; Deposition of Organization; Deposition by Telephone.

(1) A party desiring to take the deposition of any person upon oral examination shall give reasonable notice in writing to every other party to the action. The notice shall state the time and place for taking the deposition and the name and address of each person to be examined, if known, and, if the name is not known, a general description sufficient to identify the person or the particular class or group to which the person belongs. If a subpoena duces tecum is to be served on the person to be examined, a designation of the materials to be produced shall be attached to or included in the notice.

(2) If any party shows that when the party was served with notice the party was unable, through the exercise of diligence, to obtain counsel to represent the party at the taking of the deposition, the deposition may not be used against the party.

(3) If a party taking a deposition wishes to have the testimony recorded by other than stenographic means, the notice shall specify the manner of recording, preserving, and filing the deposition. The court may require stenographic taking or make any other order to ensure that the recorded testimony will be accurate and trustworthy.

(4) The notice to a party deponent may be accompanied by a request made in compliance with Civ. R. 34 for the production of documents and tangible things at the taking of the deposition.

and attached to that is a request for me to bring financial information, lease agreements, copy of my pay stubs, health insurance, copies of prescriptions and list of medications, character statements that I plan to use as evidence and copy of registration to my motor vehicles and watercrafts.
First -- where is this deposition going to be and who is going to be there? Does it follow the rules of Civil procedure? Second -- Financial information -- what financial information specifically? Object to everything as the court does NOT have proper jurisdiction over the case and therefore there is no way you can be ordered to participate until there is proper jurisdiction for the case -- both parents MUST be served and service must be properly documented. Those things could be relevant to a grandparent suit. Also object as to the providing anything as grandmother has not shown a prima facie case for custody at this juncture and as such none of this information is pertinent/relevant at this point. Cite the fact that since she has not given notice of any reason as outlined in In Re Perales for custody, you object to this fishing expedition as Grams cannot even make a prima facie case for custody and that information is NOT necessary or relevant for visitation.

The next is a request for me to produce documents so she can inspect them - again asking for all of my bank accounts, loan applications (approved and denied), tax returns, living expenses, credit card statements and a list of witnesses, lease agreements and prescriptions.
Read the rules of Civil Procedure. Also again, object on the basis that the court doesn't have proper jurisdiction to make any orders concerning the child at this juncture because service has not been completed and any orders made would be void ab initio. Well get your attorney to make the arguments.

Then are the list of interrogatories (OhioGal, there is not a way for me to submit those electronically like you mentioned).
Rule 33 requires that for interrogatories:
Rule 33. Interrogatories to Parties


(A) Availability; procedures for use.Any party, without leave of court, may serve upon any other party up to forty written interrogatories to be answered by the party served. A party serving interrogatories shall serve the party with an electronic copy of the interrogatories. The electronic copy shall be reasonably useable for word processing and provided on computer disk, by electronic mail, or by other means agreed to by the parties. A party who is unable to provide an electronic copy of the interrogatories may seek leave of court to be relieved of this requirement. A party shall not propound more than forty interrogatories to any other party without leave of court. Upon motion, and for good cause shown, the court may extend the number of interrogatories that a party may serve upon another party. For purposes of this rule, any subpart propounded under an interrogatory shall be considered a separate interrogatory.
The next is a motion for a GAL, then a motion for Temp Orders.
Motion to Modify Parental Rights ~ this is where she says that the environment is in my daughter's best interest (because of the "multiple evictions and the arrest in 2004 that was dismissed). Last Motion is for her to be Joined as a Defendant (with my Ex).
Ask for an immediate dismissal of the motion to modify parental rights due to the fact that it does NOT meet the In Re Perales requirements for a change of custody (especially if she mentions NOTHING unsuitable about your ex) and therefore she fails to make even a prima facie case to change custody.


All of these are directed at me, nothing for my Ex. What should I do next? Sorry for all of the info, I just wanted to ensure I was thorough.
Meet with your attorney and ask for your attorney to have the parental rights modification immediately dismissed because there is not even a prima facie case for custody.
 

kik1999

Member
My mother and her husband have unlimited money to spend on this.

I began to interview attorneys when I first found out about the case. But then I never got served (I know of two times they came to my home when my daughter was home alone, and of course being 13, she won't answer the door when we aren't home). One said she didn't see the case getting very far at all based on the lack of contact for such a long period of time. Of course, this was before I knew she was going to LIE about being her primary caregiver for the first 5 years of her life.

If it gets to a point where it will be necessary, I also want the court to possibly interview or take my daughter's wishes into consideration. I'm hoping that is a possibility, because actually, that's the initial reasoning I started to distance my family from her...my daughter (and she saw my stepdaughter at the time too) began to not want to go over there after her and my dad divorced for multiple reasons.

I will post updates for other reader's information. Thanks again.
 

kik1999

Member
I really hate GPV for just this type of situation. Good Luck OP!!
Isn't it awful?!?! I completely get it if the parents are incapable of parenting or are doing harm to their children, or abandoned their kids, etc. But seriously? My mother has not even tried to pick up the phone and resolve anything with me. She went straight to a lawsuit. My ex and I have done everything possible to successfully co-parent our daughter, and she is an AWESOME kid....she participates in athletics, plays clarinet, is in a leadership/ambassador group at school, a straight A honors student...I could go on and on about how great of a kid she is. And my husband has custody of his daughter (and has for 8 years), and she is awesome too! I'm not saying we haven't made mistakes as parents and in life in general. But this is abuse of the legal system in my opinion. To use it to get your way just because you don't like a parent's decision? I cannot believe they would even entertain her petition for custody ~ makes me soooo irritated!!

And thanks for the well wishes! Fingers crossed for my daughter's sake!!
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Isn't it awful?!?! I completely get it if the parents are incapable of parenting or are doing harm to their children, or abandoned their kids, etc. But seriously? My mother has not even tried to pick up the phone and resolve anything with me. She went straight to a lawsuit. My ex and I have done everything possible to successfully co-parent our daughter, and she is an AWESOME kid....she participates in athletics, plays clarinet, is in a leadership/ambassador group at school, a straight A honors student...I could go on and on about how great of a kid she is. And my husband has custody of his daughter (and has for 8 years), and she is awesome too! I'm not saying we haven't made mistakes as parents and in life in general. But this is abuse of the legal system in my opinion. To use it to get your way just because you don't like a parent's decision? I cannot believe they would even entertain her petition for custody ~ makes me soooo irritated!!

And thanks for the well wishes! Fingers crossed for my daughter's sake!!
OG gave you lots of detailed argument to make that the court should not even entertain her petition for custody. As long as you get yourself an attorney who is willing to argue this properly, that part of the case should go away very rapidly.

As far as the gpv portion is concerned, the odds are also in your favor there, due to your child's age and your child's wishes, on top of the fact that there has been no contact in three years and little contact in the 5 years prior to that.

You really can win this case if its handled properly.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
My mother and her husband have unlimited money to spend on this.

I began to interview attorneys when I first found out about the case. But then I never got served (I know of two times they came to my home when my daughter was home alone, and of course being 13, she won't answer the door when we aren't home). One said she didn't see the case getting very far at all based on the lack of contact for such a long period of time. Of course, this was before I knew she was going to LIE about being her primary caregiver for the first 5 years of her life.

If it gets to a point where it will be necessary, I also want the court to possibly interview or take my daughter's wishes into consideration. I'm hoping that is a possibility, because actually, that's the initial reasoning I started to distance my family from her...my daughter (and she saw my stepdaughter at the time too) began to not want to go over there after her and my dad divorced for multiple reasons.

I will post updates for other reader's information. Thanks again.
If they have unlimited money, ask that they pay YOUR legal fees for filing a frivolous custody motion.
 

kik1999

Member
OG, I just saw this response to my post. I cannot thank you enough for this information. If anything, you gave me a TON of stuff to read up on before my meeting on Monday evening. And you are correct, she mentioned NOTHING about my ex whatsoever. Like he doesn't even exist or something.



Orders without proper jurisdiction are void ab initio. If all parties are not served, the court does not have proper jurisdiction.


She needs to clarify issues after proper service. .


Make her prove she was the caregiver.
It's ironic, I just took my daughter to the doctor's office the other day, and they have a sign in sheet attached to her chart with the date and signature of every time she's been in to see the doctor since 2000. Before she had her tonsils out when she was 6, she got strep a LOT. The only signature on this sheet of paper every single time she's been to the doctor since 2000, is mine. We're talking a full sheet and a half of my signatures. She's never even taken her to a doctor's appointment.


You still have an eviction. Doesn't mean it never happened. However it was four years ago. When was your divorce?
Actually, the eviction was dismissed. There was a stay issued because I filed for bankruptcy before the case was heard, and then it ended up being dismissed, so I guess technically I wasn't evicted? Yes, it was in 2008. Our divorce was in 2001.


That is even further removed and matters not.
It sounds like she is using this date/event as the beginning of my "downfall". She states this is the time/event when "periods of visitation began to decline".


She can ask for anything.



Okay. Is there a summons with the complaint? Did she file a parenting proceeding affidavit?
There is a Motion for her to take Deposition (only my deposition, not my ex), a Request for Production of Documents (only documents related to me), First Set of Interrogatories (only related to me), Motion for Guardian Ad Litem, Motion for Temp Orders, a Motion for Visitation, a Motion for an Order Modifying Parental Rights, a Parenting Proceeding Affidavit, and a Motion for her to Join as Party Defendant.

There is NO summons.




She is allowed to request you be deposed however she has to abide by rule 28 among others:
So who is going to be administering the oath? You have a right to request that information. Stipulate to NOTHING. Does she have an attorney? Also see this rule:




First -- where is this deposition going to be and who is going to be there? Does it follow the rules of Civil procedure? Second -- Financial information -- what financial information specifically? Object to everything as the court does NOT have proper jurisdiction over the case and therefore there is no way you can be ordered to participate until there is proper jurisdiction for the case -- both parents MUST be served and service must be properly documented. Those things could be relevant to a grandparent suit. Also object as to the providing anything as grandmother has not shown a prima facie case for custody at this juncture and as such none of this information is pertinent/relevant at this point. Cite the fact that since she has not given notice of any reason as outlined in In Re Perales for custody, you object to this fishing expedition as Grams cannot even make a prima facie case for custody and that information is NOT necessary or relevant for visitation.


Read the rules of Civil Procedure. Also again, object on the basis that the court doesn't have proper jurisdiction to make any orders concerning the child at this juncture because service has not been completed and any orders made would be void ab initio. Well get your attorney to make the arguments.


Rule 33 requires that for interrogatories:


Ask for an immediate dismissal of the motion to modify parental rights due to the fact that it does NOT meet the In Re Perales requirements for a change of custody (especially if she mentions NOTHING unsuitable about your ex) and therefore she fails to make even a prima facie case to change custody.




Meet with your attorney and ask for your attorney to have the parental rights modification immediately dismissed because there is not even a prima facie case for custody.


As far as the documents/financial information she is requesting...it is employment info, wages, check stubs, bonuses, stock options, commissions, earnings, employment contracts, letters or memos re: terms of employment, pay raises, payroll deductions, promotions, retirement funds, pension plan, annuity, which were previously or which may be paid in the future, paid, available, rejected, accepted, offered from Jan. 2008 - present.

She knows I left my long term position in Feb. 2008, but doesn't know where I went subsequently, so I'm sure that's why this date is chosen.

She's asking for all income tax returns from 08-present and accompanying worksheets, all w-2s. All secured or unsecured personal loans either by family member or banking institutions, all checking accounts including their registers, deposit slips, monthly statements, cancelled checks for open or closed accounts.
All records, complaints, documents, court orders or citations, arrest records related to civil or criminal cases from 04 - present.
Copies of all loan applications, applied for whether they were accepted or rejected.
Records of bank accounts, financial statements for credit cards or loans.
An itemized list of living expenses and documents and receipts to support expenses.
All registrations to motor vehicles or water crafts owned.
All names/addresses of witnesses related to relevant facts who possess proof of incidents or acts involved.
All records pertaining to any account or accounts of EVERY ind and nature whatsoever in which I have deposited or withdrawn funds or incurred debts or credits since 2009.
Copies of health insurance policies for my daughter.
Copies of all documents I plan to use as exhibits.
Savings account and credit union account statements.
Credit card statements reflecting payments.
Copy of any lease or rental agreement from 2004 - current.
Copies of prescriptions from 2012 - present.
List of all medications used by me (prescribed for me or not) from 2004 - present.
List of all relief from Federal, Local, Private relief agency, name of benefit, date received and case worker.

In regards to her deposition - she wants me to take it at her attorney's office, she will take the deposition, by oral examination and it will continue from day to day until complete, will be recorded and transcribed by Court Reporter. I am to bring all requested documentation there at that time. It is less than 3 weeks away.

I still don't understand why she isn't asking for any information about my CHILD. I get it, she has more money than me. Doesn't mean she's better suited for custody of my daughter than me.
 

kik1999

Member
If they have unlimited money, ask that they pay YOUR legal fees for filing a frivolous custody motion.
They have unlimited money and I am a full time college student!!! My husband is self employed, but I don't work and haven't for over a year! I absolutely want to ask to have her pay my attorney fees. I have an email that her husband sent me where he said, "I have unlimited funds, the legal and political connections to drag you to court if you don't start complying and granting your mother's requests". This is ALLLLL him. (the new husband)
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
They have unlimited money and I am a full time college student!!! My husband is self employed, but I don't work and haven't for over a year! I absolutely want to ask to have her pay my attorney fees. I have an email that her husband sent me where he said, "I have unlimited funds, the legal and political connections to drag you to court if you don't start complying and granting your mother's requests". This is ALLLLL him. (the new husband)
Make sure that you print out that email, with the full headers, and show that to the attorney that you hire.
 

kik1999

Member
Make sure that you print out that email, with the full headers, and show that to the attorney that you hire.
Yes ma'am. It was my last contact I had with her and her husband. My response included that my mother was able to see my daughter whenever she wanted, all she had to do was ask. So it also proves that I actually have not denied access, as she has never contacted me after that email.
 

kik1999

Member
Update

Hi everyone. I just wanted to give a brief update on the situation and to reiterate that all advice I have received from this site has been wonderful and spot on. :) I have retained an attorney just for the record.

There were initially 3 dates scheduled in September....two court dates and a deposition. My attorney was able to get the court dates continued, seeing as she was retained less than 2 weeks before the hearings, because I wasn't served until 13 days prior to the hearing. As far as the deposition goes, she explained that usually those aren't done until closer to a trial, she told opposing counsel we weren't available and we will reschedule if needed. Basically at this time, a deposition is a waste of everyone's time and money since we have no idea where this is going, it's not happening. Also, we're pretty sure the custody case will get dismissed immediately, because as it was explained to me earlier in the thread, she has no basis to even bring a custody suit against us.

We're hoping to get the GPV suit dismissed as well, because by my mother's own admission, she hasn't had any kind of substantial/meaningful visitation since January of 2004 and no contact since 2009. If the GPV goes forward at our hearing, a GAL will most likely be assigned at that time. I did show my attorney that email I had where I stated my mother was welcome to see my daughter whenever she wants (which is the last contact I had with my mother in 2009), and where her husband threatened me with their unlimited source of funds, etc.

My mother's attorney stated that she is not really going to press the custody issue, that she basically just wants visitation. No way in the world will I settle for court ordered visitation. So I will stand my ground if it does go forward, and as suggested, I will have a judge rule on the merits of the case. I guess if it does go forward, a GAL is in my daughter's best interest, because my daughter will most definitely explain she has no desire to visit with my mom. The GAL will also be able to see how well daughter is doing despite the fact she doesn't have a relationship with Grandma. I have been researching case law and I haven't yet found any that are similar to my situation - against parents and child's wishes, where child is as old as my daughter (13, will be 14 in May).

One final note, my ex still hasn't been served - she can't find him (he lives out of state). I saw yesterday where she has requested for service by publication. I will come back and update after our next hearing - hopefully I will have great news!!:) Thanks again for all of your help. It is much appreciated!
 
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Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Hi everyone. I just wanted to give a brief update on the situation and to reiterate that all advice I have received from this site has been wonderful and spot on. :) I have retained an attorney just for the record.

There were initially 3 dates scheduled in September....two court dates and a deposition. My attorney was able to get the court dates continued, seeing as she was retained less than 2 weeks before the hearings, because I wasn't served until 13 days prior to the hearing. As far as the deposition goes, she explained that usually those aren't done until closer to a trial, she told opposing counsel we weren't available and we will reschedule if needed. Basically at this time, a deposition is a waste of everyone's time and money since we have no idea where this is going, it's not happening. Also, we're pretty sure the custody case will get dismissed immediately, because as it was explained to me earlier in the thread, she has no basis to even bring a custody suit against us.

We're hoping to get the GPV suit dismissed as well, because by my mother's own admission, she hasn't had any kind of substantial/meaningful visitation since January of 2004 and no contact since 2009. If the GPV goes forward at our hearing, a GAL will most likely be assigned at that time. I did show my attorney that email I had where I stated my mother was welcome to see my daughter whenever she wants (which is the last contact I had with my mother in 2009), and where her husband threatened me with their unlimited source of funds, etc.

My mother's attorney stated that she is not really going to press the custody issue, that she basically just wants visitation. No way in the world will I settle for court ordered visitation. So I will stand my ground if it does go forward, and as suggested, I will have a judge rule on the merits of the case. I guess if it does go forward, a GAL is in my daughter's best interest, because my daughter will most definitely explain she has no desire to visit with my mom. The GAL will also be able to see how well daughter is doing despite the fact she doesn't have a relationship with Grandma. I have been researching case law and I haven't yet found any that are similar to my situation - against parents and child's wishes, where child is as old as my daughter (13, will be 14 in May).

One final note, my ex still hasn't been served - she can't find him (he lives out of state). I saw yesterday where she has requested for service by publication. I will come back and update after our next hearing - hopefully I will have great news!!:) Thanks again for all of your help. It is much appreciated!
Have your attorney fight that as your ex is available to be found as he has a relationship with his child. Correct? If she serves him by publication, he may never know about anything and lose on defending his rights.
 
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