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Relocation about to get a monkey wrench

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Acceptance

Junior Member
Although anything could happen in the future regarding how things turn out we have to keep in mind that I am a native there, so is my entire family and childhood friends. Therefore, we have contacts and friends in the community and connecting my stepdaughter with a job after her education would not be by any means impossible. We are not talking about moving to a strange country were we know no one and have no support. Also, if we were unhappy there we could always move back. I just do not see how any judge would not see the value of this opportunity for my step-daughter as well as the rest of us. However, I do understand that a judge ruling cannot be predicted and does not always turn out to be what makes sense to the rest of us. The other point that should be valuable is that obtaining citizenship for both my boyfriend and step-daughter after we have been residing there for sometime is another longer term possibility which would also reduce some of the possible barriers and open more doors. This would also result in future employment opportunities throughout Europe in neighbor countries (perhaps even England) which is very common now a days. So, I am still confident that this is in her best interest, but how a judge would feel who knows.
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
Moving to France WILL NOT cost her, her US citizenship Rmet. She is free to return if she chooses to do so. Therefore your "gloom and doom" message is off kilter.

You are trying to scare this family into choosing NOT to immigrate to France, or into choosing to leave the child here....and that makes no sense of any kind.

So....

To the original poster:

Grandma cannot challenge the move....and while mom can...based on her current status she has virtually no chance at winning. Sure, no one can predict what a judge will do for certain....however if the judge cannot justify giving mom custody, the judge can't stop dad from moving the child to France.

I think that you are offering this teenage girl a marvelous opportunity and that it will be a wonderful experience for her. I wish you all the best of luck.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Acceptance said:
Although anything could happen in the future regarding how things turn out we have to keep in mind that I am a native there, so is my entire family and childhood friends. Therefore, we have contacts and friends in the community and connecting my stepdaughter with a job after her education would not be by any means impossible.
Your reasons for returning to France are moot insofar as your stepdaughter. Do you have a green card? Are you returning to France because you cannot stay in the US or cannot work or for family reasons? Do you have a green card? Will your husband be able to work once he gets there?
We are not talking about moving to a strange country were we know no one and have no support.
That is irrelevant, can your husband support his family there without assistance by your family and friends? Is he having a problem supporting his family in the US?
Also, if we were unhappy there we could always move back.
True, but this is traumatic for children to be always on the move. It is not the same as a vacation or being an exchange student.
I just do not see how any judge would not see the value of this opportunity for my step-daughter as well as the rest of us.
It is your stepdaughter's best interest that the judge will consider, not your or your husband's benefits, the judge will consider all the facts. Are you willing and able to pay for your stepdaughter to return to the US for several extended periods of visitation such as summer and Christmas vacations, and return airfare if she decides to return to the US?
However, I do understand that a judge ruling cannot be predicted and does not always turn out to be what makes sense to the rest of us.
Remember there is the right way, the wrong way and the Franch way, lol! In the American justice system, there are Federal Standards and State standards set by statute, in general a judge considers the facts, not just one side of an issue and in the case of a minor child might even order a Guardian ad Litem to represent the child's best interest, and then applies th elaw to the facts and then decides what they feel is in the best interest of the child. Dad would have to prove that the move is in the best interest of the child, to remove her from all of her family and friends, her culture and community because you are homesick?
The other point that should be valuable is that obtaining citizenship for both my boyfriend and step-daughter after we have been residing there for sometime is another longer term possibility which would also reduce some of the possible barriers and open more doors.
THat is just the point, because as a minor child in a country where she doesn't speak the language and different educational system, she will be at a disadvantage for a long time and that is not in her best interest, Now if you and dad move to France and she stays here and visits you until she is an adult and then decides to move to France, she will have time and opportunity to prepare without interrupting her last few years of minority in the US, then the only quesiton would be paying her way there and obtaining the visas.
This would also result in future employment opportunities throughout Europe in neighbor countries (perhaps even England) which is very common now a days. So, I am still confident that this is in her best interest, but how a judge would feel who knows.
These are things that can be addressed when she is an adult in a couple years. I'm not against people traveling to other countries or students studying in different countries, I am objecting to removing this child from her homeland at a critical point in her maturity. If she were an exchange student, she would be returning to graduate high school. I studied in France, why would I object to someone else having a similar experience? It is more than the issue of being a student.
 
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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
Moving to France WILL NOT cost her, her US citizenship Rmet. She is free to return if she chooses to do so. Therefore your "gloom and doom" message is off kilter.

You are trying to scare this family into choosing NOT to immigrate to France, or into choosing to leave the child here....and that makes no sense of any kind.

So....

To the original poster:

Grandma cannot challenge the move....and while mom can...based on her current status she has virtually no chance at winning. Sure, no one can predict what a judge will do for certain....however if the judge cannot justify giving mom custody, the judge can't stop dad from moving the child to France.

I think that you are offering this teenage girl a marvelous opportunity and that it will be a wonderful experience for her. I wish you all the best of luck.
I never said moving to France would cost the step daughter her citizenship, where did you get that!

It is true that without French citizenship, she may not be entitled to some guarentees so that is something they must consider, same as in this country, when a foreign spouse is allowed to immigrate, the USC must provide proof of support before a green caard is issued.
 

Acceptance

Junior Member
In reply to several points raised by rmet4nzkx:

[Your reasons for returning to France are moot insofar as your stepdaughter. Do you have a green card? Are you returning to France because you cannot stay in the US or cannot work or for family reasons? Do you have a green card? Will your husband be able to work once he gets there?]
I am a citizen there. I can work in the US for one more year & after that my work permit ends without any extensions left until I am out of the US at least 1 year. I am additionally returning due to multiple family reasons. My boyfriend and I are not married. He is disabled and receives SSI (pretty small monthly sum).

[That is irrelevant, can your husband support his family there without assistance by your family and friends? Is he having a problem supporting his family in the US?]
As I just mentioned above he is disabled and helps to contribute with his SSI check. Other than that I am the one that supports the family and works F/T out of the home, and he is the stay at home dad. He would definitely have a serious problem supporting his family in the US by himself.

[True, but this is traumatic for children to be always on the move. It is not the same as a vacation or being an exchange student.]
It can be, but again, I was an exchange student here for 12th grade and then applied for college and stayed. Again I am the only one here from my family. Although there were traumatizing parts in my experience in hindsight I would not change anything. It has been nothing but a growth and opportunities journey that has resulted in many additional doors opening for me.


[It is your stepdaughter's best interest that the judge will consider, not your or your husband's benefits, the judge will consider all the facts. Are you willing and able to pay for your stepdaughter to return to the US for several extended periods of visitation such as summer and Christmas vacations, and return airfare if she decides to return to the US?]
I know my step-daughter’s interest are the focal point. That is why I am thinking that it would be more traumatizing to leave her in the US separated from her father, step-mother, and 4 y.o. half sister whom she has been living with for the last 6 years and who are the only financial and emotional support she is had. So, it seems as this move would be the best for all involved starting with my step-daughter ( I have known her since she was 4 months all).
I am willing and able to pay for anything that she needs, as I have been, so is my family. However, if it involves grandmom or mom only in my fair share as long as they are able and willing to do the same. She is my responsibility, but they are not. As adults they should carry their own weight.

Thanks Once Again,
Acceptance
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
I think it would be wise to note that this is NOT a stepdaughter - a point which may further complicate matters.
 

Acceptance

Junior Member
Point well taken Stealth2! I guess I should clarify that I am perfectly aware of the fact that since we are not married she is not my "step-daughter" since legally I have no grounds or rights to her. When I utilize the term I am expressing my emotional level of involvement even though I am not legally required or responsible either. With this in mind, I guess it would count for nothing that I have been raising her and supporting her all this time when not her own mother is bothering, uh?

Thanks,
Acceptance
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
The thing is, it MAY be a factor. You have no legal obligation to Dad OR to his daughter. Dad will likely not be eligible to work in France - will he be eligible to keep getting his SSI check while living abroad (I honestly have no idea - these are just thoughts)? My understanding is that it is not that easy for non-EU peeps to get work visas, so it may not be so straightforward to get his daughter a job in France. Or rather, a *good* job.
 

Acceptance

Junior Member
[The thing is, it MAY be a factor. You have no legal obligation to Dad OR to his daughter. Dad will likely not be eligible to work in France - will he be eligible to keep getting his SSI check while living abroad (I honestly have no idea - these are just thoughts)? My understanding is that it is not that easy for non-EU peeps to get work visas, so it may not be so straightforward to get his daughter a job in France. Or rather, a *good* job.]

No legal responsibility being the case, where does it legally leave us, me? Any clues? Initially the plan with him is to go to school to be qualified for a job he can handle with his dissabilities. They would both be leaving the US with student visas at first to be changed later. Teaching English in the meantime is another option. He will not be able to keep his SSI check when we are out of the US, but he also could not support our daughter, his daughter and himself with that check if he was to stay behind. Honestly, he would have problems just supporting himself with the SSI check alone.

I have checked with laws there and not quick, simple or cheap (because of lawyer fees), but it is possible for me to apply for their residency once there based on common law registered marriage. So, that's part of the plan once there.

Thank You For Your Good Points,
Acceptance
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
stealth2 said:
I think it would be wise to note that this is NOT a stepdaughter - a point which may further complicate matters.
My bad.:eek:
This is an important fact. Until this page we talked in terms of, mom, dad, child, then OP used the term "stepdaughter" and I sliped up and failed to remember that it was her boyfriend, and now the other informaiton makes a big difference.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
What a can of worms! I should have asked the questions first.
This is really a question for the immigration forum but here goes, some more questions.
Is your boyfrined free to marry?
What is your field of work?
Is he on SSI or SSDI, they are different?
Has he signed an acknowledgement of paternity for the child you have together?
What is the nature of his disability?
Does he have a child support order for his teenaged daughter?
What is the nature of his disability?
When you return, if you return without him will you take your joint child?
Since you have a job waiting for you when you return, could you pay child support for your joint child?
Depending on these answers I will make some suggestions, but I think that at this point you should just figure that his daughter will be remaining in the USA.
Now if you can afford to support him and your child in France, that is possible, remember if he moves to France and mom or GM gets custody of the teenaged child, dad may have to pay child support.
This would have been so much easier if you were forthcoming in the begining.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Acceptance said:
I have checked with laws there and not quick, simple or cheap (because of lawyer fees), but it is possible for me to apply for their residency once there based on common law registered marriage. So, that's part of the plan once there.

Thank You For Your Good Points,
Acceptance
Common Law Marriage in Maryland

A "common law marriage" is one in which the parties may hold themselves out as a husband and wife, and under certain circumstances, be deemed married without a marriage license or ceremony.

Maryland does not allow the creation of a “common law” marriage, a relationship in which a couple lives together but have not participated in a lawful ceremony. Unlike some other states, in Maryland a couple cannot acquire marital rights and responsibilities by living together for a particular period of time. You do not need legal action to end such a relationship, if it was created in Maryland.

However, Maryland does recognize as valid, common law marriages created in other states if the legal requirements of those states have been met. As a result, legal action is needed to dissolve legal “common law” marriages performed in other states and foreign countries in compliance with their licensing and ceremonial regulations. The courts are available for determining the rights of parties now living in Maryland.

As long as a couple lives together as husband and wife, the question of validity of their marriage is unlikely to arise. However, for purposes of inheritance or the benefits of pension plans or social security, a valid marriage is required.
 

Acceptance

Junior Member
[What a can of worms!] I hear that!
[Is your boyfrined free to marry?] yes! never been married before
[What is your field of work?] Have a M.S. in Psychology and now doing social work
[Is he on SSI or SSDI, they are different?] SSI
[Has he signed an acknowledgement of paternity for the child you have together?] yes. He is the father in the birth certificate, etc.[
What is the nature of his disability?] some physical and some mental health. No mobility problems however.
[Does he have a child support order for his teenaged daughter?] yes. The mother is well over 10K behind[
When you return, if you return without him will you take your joint child?] yes I would take our daughter with me.[
Since you have a job waiting for you when you return, could you pay child support for your joint child?] Eventually since I do not have a job waiting for me as of yet.

[Depending on these answers I will make some suggestions, but I think that at this point you should just figure that his daughter will be remaining in the USA]. I am definetly not seeing this as clearly as you seem to be
[Now if you can afford to support him and your child in France, that is possible, remember if he moves to France and mom or GM gets custody of the teenaged child, dad may have to pay child support.] I thought GM would get visitation but not necessarily custody or able to stop our move?
[This would have been so much easier if you were forthcoming in the begining.] Sorry about that. I thought I was forthcoming, but as you mentioned this is one can of worms and there are so many different pieces of information I did not want to make an initial 20 pg. post
Regarding the "common law marriage laws" I am refering to the laws in the Province we would be residing in as far as obtaining residency for them there.

Thanks,
Acceptance
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Acceptance said:
[What a can of worms!] I hear that!
[Is your boyfrined free to marry?] yes! never been married before
[What is your field of work?] Have a M.S. in Psychology and now doing social work
[Is he on SSI or SSDI, they are different?] SSI
[Has he signed an acknowledgement of paternity for the child you have together?] yes. He is the father in the birth certificate, etc.[
What is the nature of his disability?] some physical and some mental health. No mobility problems however.
[Does he have a child support order for his teenaged daughter?] yes. The mother is well over 10K behind[
When you return, if you return without him will you take your joint child?] yes I would take our daughter with me.[
Since you have a job waiting for you when you return, could you pay child support for your joint child?] Eventually since I do not have a job waiting for me as of yet.

[Depending on these answers I will make some suggestions, but I think that at this point you should just figure that his daughter will be remaining in the USA]. I am definetly not seeing this as clearly as you seem to be
[Now if you can afford to support him and your child in France, that is possible, remember if he moves to France and mom or GM gets custody of the teenaged child, dad may have to pay child support.] I thought GM would get visitation but not necessarily custody or able to stop our move?
[This would have been so much easier if you were forthcoming in the begining.] Sorry about that. I thought I was forthcoming, but as you mentioned this is one can of worms and there are so many different pieces of information I did not want to make an initial 20 pg. post
Regarding the "common law marriage laws" I am refering to the laws in the Province we would be residing in as far as obtaining residency for them there.

Thanks,
Acceptance
Where to begin:eek:
You are not married because SSI is dependent upon the income of the family, thus he would not qualify due to your income, this is a form of welfare fraud and you already know this as a social worker.
Your boyfrined will not enforce CS for his teenaged daughter because either GM or mom will turn you both in and you wil be deported.
If you attempt to take his teenaged daughter to France mom will file for custody and the same thig will happen and she may get custody, even grandma may get custody.
You will return to France but dad may file for custody and prevent you from taking your child to France and he has an excellent chance of getting custody.
If dad remains on SSI and you go to France, he will not have the income to file for a fiance visa for you, so there goes marriage.
You will then be responsible for CS at the rate for your current salary in USD.
It would behove your boyfriend to return to work and get off disability, but that is not likely and while you are gone he will finde someone else to support him.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
stealth2 said:
The thing is, it MAY be a factor. You have no legal obligation to Dad OR to his daughter. Dad will likely not be eligible to work in France - will he be eligible to keep getting his SSI check while living abroad (I honestly have no idea - these are just thoughts)? My understanding is that it is not that easy for non-EU peeps to get work visas, so it may not be so straightforward to get his daughter a job in France. Or rather, a *good* job.
I can answer that question...yes, he may still collect is SSI check while living abroad.
 
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