Scotus decision and how it is impacting ohio

[CdwJava]

To use the heavy hand of government to compel someone to act against the tenets of their faith is offensive to me. In the cases I have read about, it was not that the bakers, caterers, venues, etc. would not sell their wares to gay people, just that they could not support a wedding ceremony between gay partners - an act that is a sacrament to many. And, these providers even went so far as to offer alternatives to the potential customers ... which, at least in some of the cases, seemed to be intent on creating a confrontation rather than obtaining the goods sought.

As long as there are those that seek to force people of faith to actively support activity that they believe is contrary to a strong religious belief, this argument will not be completely over and the legal fights will continue.

 

[Ohiogal]

Actually, I disagree with that particular statement. A great many people of faith look at everything they do as an act of worship, based on Colossians 3:23: "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,"

As such, for some people of faith, baking a cake, or cleaning a toilet IS an act of worship, and to them, IS religious conduct.

Just another viewpoint.

The problem is the Christian bakeries that refused to make cakes for gay weddings were not concerned about making them for divorced individuals, single parents, children conceived out of wedlock and various other "sinners". They also weren't concerned about the other sins listed in that part of the bible.

 

[Ohiogal]

To use the heavy hand of government to compel someone to act against the tenets of their faith is offensive to me. In the cases I have read about, it was not that the bakers, caterers, venues, etc. would not sell their wares to gay people, just that they could not support a wedding ceremony between gay partners - an act that is a sacrament to many. And, these providers even went so far as to offer alternatives to the potential customers ... which, at least in some of the cases, seemed to be intent on creating a confrontation rather than obtaining the goods sought.

As long as there are those that seek to force people of faith to actively support activity that they believe is contrary to a strong religious belief, this argument will not be completely over and the legal fights will continue.

If you open a public business though you are part of commerce and therefore must act without discrimination. That is why restaurants and hotels and such could not continue refusing to serve African Americans and other minorities in the 1960s. Even though many of them claimed religious reasons for doing so.

 

[Ohiogal]

So will the wedding cake legal games end now, too? Will the Christians be "allowed" to have their beliefs and not be forced into actions that go against their beliefs? Will Christian bakeries and other businesses be free to believe what they believe?

Why haven't gay couples gone to, say, Muslim bakeries and demanded wedding cakes? Are there no Muslim bakeries in the whole United States? Or are the wedding cake legal games about Christians only?

ETA interesting links: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/20/gay-wedding-cake-northern-ireland-tolerance

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/12/06/3035121/colorado-bakery-broke-law/

I looked for Muslims, but couldn't find a single one. Golly. I wonder WHY.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/5/video-puts-muslim-bakeries-florists-in-gay-rights-/?page=all

Love you dearly but you didn't look too hard.

 

[stealth2]

To use the heavy hand of government to compel someone to act against the tenets of their faith is offensive to me. In the cases I have read about, it was not that the bakers, caterers, venues, etc. would not sell their wares to gay people, just that they could not support a wedding ceremony between gay partners - an act that is a sacrament to many. And, these providers even went so far as to offer alternatives to the potential customers ... which, at least in some of the cases, seemed to be intent on creating a confrontation rather than obtaining the goods sought.

As long as there are those that seek to force people of faith to actively support activity that they believe is contrary to a strong religious belief, this argument will not be completely over and the legal fights will continue.

And, as with any business, they are free to choose not to serve any particular person. As people are free to choose not to frequent that business. Churches are not required to perform same-sex weddings. Bakeries are not required to bake wedding cakes for same-sex weddings. I am not required to give either my business.

This is a first step, but an important one, IMO. One that may bring up a next generation that is more tolerant of our differences - particularly those we don't choose.

 

[CdwJava]

The problem is the Christian bakeries that refused to make cakes for gay weddings were not concerned about making them for divorced individuals, single parents, children conceived out of wedlock and various other "sinners". They also weren't concerned about the other sins listed in that part of the bible.

Because those people did not ask for messages on the cakes or advise they were celebrating some act or event that is considered a holy sacrament. I don't know of any "divorce cakes" or "single mom" cakes out there.

 

[CdwJava]

And, as with any business, they are free to choose not to serve any particular person. As people are free to choose not to frequent that business. Churches are not required to perform same-sex weddings. Bakeries are not required to bake wedding cakes for same-sex weddings. I am not required to give either my business.

This is a first step, but an important one, IMO. One that may bring up a next generation that is more tolerant of our differences - particularly those we don't choose.

If you think they are free to refuse to make cakes or cater same-sex weddings, you have not been reading the news. These business ares getting sued and being put out of business for such refusals.

If only businesses would be free to exercise discretion based upon a truly held belief ... sadly, it is not so.

 

[LdiJ]

If you think they are free to refuse to make cakes or cater same-sex weddings, you have not been reading the news. These business ares getting sued and being put out of business for such refusals.

If only businesses would be free to exercise discretion based upon a truly held belief ... sadly, it is not so.

But think of all the people with truly held religious beliefs where exercising discretion based on those beliefs would trigger defined, long established, illegal discrimination?

A person who has religious beliefs that are so strong that they cannot separate the secular world from the religious world should not be in a business where their beliefs clash with the law. Its that whole "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's" bit.

A Bakery bakes a cake. They might even deliver the cake, but that is the extent of their involvement.

A church has always been free to refuse to marry any couple based on their religious beliefs, and obviously that will not change just because more people are eligible to be married. However a church does not hold themselves out as available to perform that kind of service for the general public.

 

[Just Blue]

Personally I have to ask...How does it hurt anyone or any faith for two consenting adults to marry? Cause of words written thousands of years ago? Not every Bible passage is adhered to now-a days.
Thank God in His Wisdom for that Enlightenment!

jus'sayin'

 

[Proserpina]

Because those people did not ask for messages on the cakes or advise they were celebrating some act or event that is considered a holy sacrament. I don't know of any "divorce cakes" or "single mom" cakes out there.

There are entire businesses built on the premise of "divorce" cakes and whatnot.

(Some of them are actually exquisite, in terms of design technicalities ... just Google "divorce cakes" )

 

[Ladyback1]

In my opinion:

Some homosexual couples went into bakeries looking to pick a fight, and not for the right reasons.
Some bakers refused and made a big deal of the gay couples coming in (and not for the right reasons)

If EVERYONE (every race, color, creed, religion and differing sexual preferences) would treat EVERYONE else with kindness and respect.

The people who do not believe in gay marriage, should have the right to tell a potential couple: "I'm sorry, but I do not feel comfortable being a part of your special day. I know of some really great bakers (photographers, designers, ministers, etc.) that will do a better job for you."

Unfortunately, not all business people/churches/etc., handled the situation with kindness or respect.
And in some cases the LGBT community, responded badly when they were treated with kindness and respect.

*shrug* perhaps I think too simply...perhaps I just would like everyone treated with respect and kindness.

 

[Bali Hai]

I would like to know who deleted my post and why.

 

[Just Blue]

I would like to know who deleted my post and why.

Didn't know you posted.

 

[Bali Hai]

Didn't know you posted.

I responded to CdwJava and asked if Caitlyn Jenner was beautiful. Guess that didn't go over too well.

 

[Ohiogal]

Because those people did not ask for messages on the cakes or advise they were celebrating some act or event that is considered a holy sacrament. I don't know of any "divorce cakes" or "single mom" cakes out there.

You didn't look too hard either:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicaprobus/24-hilarious-divorce-cakes-that-are-even-better-than-wedding#.yfeVq4RKp

And there are several other sites for such things. They exist. As do "second wedding" cakes and various other things that are considered cakes for sinful things. Hence bakeries are being very ignorant and hypocritical saying they are good Christians and not refusing to bake cakes for unmarried pregnant women (for their baby showers) or divorce cakes.