Scotus decision and how it is impacting ohio

[Proserpina]

I totally agree! Any business person should be able to adhere to their beliefs even while performing services.

I believe in Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. I also believe in the commandment, "Thou shalt honor thy Father and Mother." It says nothing about honoring thy Father and Father or Mother and Mother.

As a young child, I felt self-conscious and embarrassed when most of my classmates would talk about their parents when I only had one parent due to divorce. I can't help but think of the embarrassment and self-consciousness a child of a same-sex married couple would feel in a conversation with classmates about their parents.

I think the Supreme Court Decision encourages Atheism since same sex married couples would forgo having their children being guided spiritually because most churches are against such unions. I'm afraid religion and many churches will steadily decline as a result.

It is horrible to believe anyone or any government has the right to redefine Marriage, when it has already been defined by God.

It would have been better to catigorize it as a "Legal Union" rather than "Marriage!" That way, same sex unions would have the same rights as a married couple.

Copying the post before the "author" deletes or edits.

Let me put it this way: the post was created purely to encourage discord, and had nothing to do with CDW's beliefs. The "author" knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[CdwJava]

While I kind of see your point, I personally disagree with you about a church wedding. If a particular church supports the union, who am I to challenge that church's tenets?

That's fine, but, I could not attend because I hold to a biblical-centered interpretation of the bible and find that the few denominations that DO support same-sex unions are utilizing flawed reasoning in their theological foundation. And, personally, I believe they are doing so for political (i.e. attendance) purposes rather than true issues of faith. As such, I still could not support such a union by attending the ceremony as I would be committing an affront to God in doing so.

When I was 18 years old and exploring spirituality I had a conversation with a Catholic priest that has never left me. I was questioning the contradictions of various religions and asking for an explanation of how anyone could know who was right and who was wrong. His response was that nobody knows who is right and who is wrong, but that he believed that as long as you kept your own personal covenant with god that you would go to heaven. Nothing that any other member of the clergy has said to me has ever had as much impact.

And, he is allowed to hold to that belief. Such an interpretation is one of the things I have wrong with many aspects of the American Catholic Church as it is not a Biblically supported concept, but oft-repeated. And, he is free to believe it as are you. I, personally, do not believe this to be the case as the Bible says otherwise for those who have been exposed to His Word.

The bottom line however is that there is the religious world and the secular world. Nobody is ever going to convince me that "rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's and rending unto God what is God's" is not the right way to handle things.

Render onto Caesar his taxes. But, don't threaten with the sword the person who does not believe as you do.

 

[Ladyback1]

That's fine, but, I could not attend because I hold to a biblical-centered interpretation of the bible and find that the few denominations that DO support same-sex unions are utilizing flawed reasoning in their theological foundation. And, personally, I believe they are doing so for political (i.e. attendance) purposes rather than true issues of faith. As such, I still could not support such a union by attending the ceremony as I would be committing an affront to God in doing so.


.

But, aren't you judging those religions and those beliefs--based on semantics and interpretation? And isn't one of the tenets of most Christian beliefs "thou shalt not judge"?
What I believe about the God I choose to believe in is just as firmly held as yours; and are just as based on the Bible as your beliefs are--probably the same Bible, even.

Doesn't the Bible ultimately come down to "be nice to one another"?

 

[Just Blue]

Oh, dear ... are we really going to get into a discussion of the Bible and how it may or may not be the Word of God?

It is NOT the "word" of God. It is "word of mouth". Stories passed down from parent to child. I have the absolute belief in GOD...Not so much for what is fictionalized by man.

I can not believe that MY GOD would be ok with so many of HIS CHILDREN being hurt. That He would be agreeable with so many of HIS CHILDREN being HURTFUL. What God says to me...We are ALL HIS Children and ALL deserve HIS Love and RESPECT. IMO.

 

[CdwJava]

But, aren't you judging those religions and those beliefs--based on semantics and interpretation?

Based upon my reading of the Bible, yes.

And isn't one of the tenets of most Christian beliefs "thou shalt not judge"?

I'm not judging them - I lack the capacity to judge them. Their actions is an issue between them and their creator. I am neither publicly condemning them nor picketing, opposing, or asking the state to make them conform to my belief. I merely state that I cannot support their interpretation by attending a service that purports to support a union between a same-sex couple as blessed by God.

What I believe about the God I choose to believe in is just as firmly held as yours; and are just as based on the Bible as your beliefs are--probably the same Bible, even.

Then I might suggest you are reading it a tad differently.

Doesn't the Bible ultimately come down to "be nice to one another"?

Please point out where I ever suggested anyone be rude, snotty, violent, or otherwise out of line with a person they disagreed with on a matter of faith or belief.

I have many gay friends and a family member. I spent half of my life in theater in the Bay Area (and, yes, in San Francisco), and I have a great many gay friends. I attend barbecues, their family events, and my wife even attended the birth and is an honorary aunt to a daughter born to a same-sex lesbian couple. I hold no animus towards gay people. Their actions are a matter between them and God. I will love my neighbor, even when I do not agree with him. That does not mean, however, that I have to act in support of a holy sacrament when I do not believe it is.

The state should no more force someone to act contrary to a truly held religious tenet than they should compel the Catholic Church to grant me communion because I am attending their church service, being polite, and am a nice guy. When I attend a Catholic service (for weddings or other events) I cannot take communion because I am not Catholic. That's fine. It's a sacrament, so I understand it. It would be nice if others could agree that there are people with truly held religious beliefs and not think it okay for the state to force them to comply. Because, while today that force might be applied for a cause you believe in, what if tomorrow that force is used to force YOU to comply with an act that would compel you to commit what you believe to be a sinful act? Personally, I'd rather the state just stay out of it.

 

[CdwJava]

It is NOT the "word" of God. It is "word of mouth". Stories passed down from parent to child. I have the absolute belief in GOD...Not so much for what is fictionalized by man.

Well, that's not what it means to follow the Bible, but, it is an oft-repeated mantra by those who wish to distort or change what the Bible has to say. Some people are made uncomfortable by a bar that might be set to a standard that they cannot personally achieve - or do not want to hold themselves to. Although, NO ONE can meet the standard which is why the forgiveness offered by the promise of the Bible is central to our faith.

I can not believe that MY GOD would be ok with so many of HIS CHILDREN being hurt. That He would be agreeable with so many of HIS CHILDREN being HURTFUL. What God says to me...We are ALL HIS Children and ALL deserve HIS Love and RESPECT. IMO.

And, again, I ask where I ever said not to love, care for, be respectful to or nice to someone of another faith, of no faith, or who believes differently. I said no such thing. But, neither should I be compelled by the sword to act in such a way that I must support an act that believe might put me in the position of committing sin.

 

[LdiJ]

Well, that's not what it means to follow the Bible, but, it is an oft-repeated mantra by those who wish to distort or change what the Bible has to say. Some people are made uncomfortable by a bar that might be set to a standard that they cannot personally achieve - or do not want to hold themselves to. Although, NO ONE can meet the standard which is why the forgiveness offered by the promise of the Bible is central to our faith.


And, again, I ask where I ever said not to love, care for, be respectful to or nice to someone of another faith, of no faith, or who believes differently. I said no such thing. But, neither should I be compelled by the sword to act in such a way that I must support an act that believe might put me in the position of committing sin.

I am just going to throw one last thing out there that is a bit unusual.

I am one of those rare people who at one point in my life chose to read the bible from front to cover, over the course of several months. Doing so completely changed my viewpoints on just about everything. My personal opinion of the bible now is that it is a textbook...a textbook with multiple authors, with multiple viewpoints. Its up to each person to figure out what that textbook means to them.

 

[Just Blue]

Well, that's not what it means to follow the Bible, but, it is an oft-repeated mantra by those who wish to distort or change what the Bible has to say. Some people are made uncomfortable by a bar that might be set to a standard that they cannot personally achieve - or do not want to hold themselves to. Although, NO ONE can meet the standard which is why the forgiveness offered by the promise of the Bible is central to our faith.


And, again, I ask where I ever said not to love, care for, be respectful to or nice to someone of another faith, of no faith, or who believes differently. I said no such thing. But, neither should I be compelled by the sword to act in such a way that I must support an act that believe might put me in the position of committing sin.

Carl...I do not agree with you but I respect your point of view.

 

[Ladyback1]

Based upon my reading of the Bible, yes.


I'm not judging them - I lack the capacity to judge them. Their actions is an issue between them and their creator. I am neither publicly condemning them nor picketing, opposing, or asking the state to make them conform to my belief. I merely state that I cannot support their interpretation by attending a service that purports to support a union between a same-sex couple as blessed by God.


Then I might suggest you are reading it a tad differently.


Please point out where I ever suggested anyone be rude, snotty, violent, or otherwise out of line with a person they disagreed with on a matter of faith or belief.

I have many gay friends and a family member. I spent half of my life in theater in the Bay Area (and, yes, in San Francisco), and I have a great many gay friends. I attend barbecues, their family events, and my wife even attended the birth and is an honorary aunt to a daughter born to a same-sex lesbian couple. I hold no animus towards gay people. Their actions are a matter between them and God. I will love my neighbor, even when I do not agree with him. That does not mean, however, that I have to act in support of a holy sacrament when I do not believe it is.

The state should no more force someone to act contrary to a truly held religious tenet than they should compel the Catholic Church to grant me communion because I am attending their church service, being polite, and am a nice guy. When I attend a Catholic service (for weddings or other events) I cannot take communion because I am not Catholic. That's fine. It's a sacrament, so I understand it. It would be nice if others could agree that there are people with truly held religious beliefs and not think it okay for the state to force them to comply. Because, while today that force might be applied for a cause you believe in, what if tomorrow that force is used to force YOU to comply with an act that would compel you to commit what you believe to be a sinful act? Personally, I'd rather the state just stay out of it.

based on what you have said....you seem to be a Christian who lives as they believe. And what you believe in kindness to one another. I have the utmost respect for those who live, and I mean TRULY live, as kind and caring individuals.

I would hate to see this monumental decision turn into the Government forcing churches, synagogues, temples, etc. to allow and perform weddings of gay/lesbian couples.

While I think both sides have created quite the spectacle leading up to this, I would hope that both sides understand: 1) you cannot force someone to believe the same as you, 2) Not everyone is going to "like" or accept gay/lesbian couples (conversely, there are some religious folks who are not going to be liked or accepted) 3) And NONE of that would matter IF everyone could be kind, caring and compassionate to their fellow man.

Carl--I think you are a fine example of what a Christian should be!

 

[Proserpina]

No snark when I say this:

I actually shed a tear there. A beautiful and heartfelt sentiment.

If this thing would let me do cutesy graphics I'd make one of these: <3

 

[davew128]

Oh, to toy or not to toy with you ... that is the question.

Nah. Not yet, anyway. I'll let you sit for awhile.

I'll take that as acknowledgement that I'm right.

 

[davew128]

The problem is the Christian bakeries that refused to make cakes for gay weddings were not concerned about making them for divorced individuals, single parents, children conceived out of wedlock and various other "sinners". They also weren't concerned about the other sins listed in that part of the bible.

You're confusing Catholic with Christian. You would be wise to know the difference.

 

[davew128]

If you open a public business though you are part of commerce and therefore must act without discrimination. That is why restaurants and hotels and such could not continue refusing to serve African Americans and other minorities in the 1960s. Even though many of them claimed religious reasons for doing so.

None of those religious reasons were legitimate and you know it. The religious reasons against gay anything to those who believe in those religions are VERY real.

 

[davew128]

I responded to CdwJava and asked if Caitlyn Jenner was beautiful. Guess that didn't go over too well.

He stepson in law Kanye gets all excited thinking about him, er her.

 

[davew128]

But how does it "hurt" the baker if "Bob and Steve" marry? Two loving, adult and devoted persons would like the same "cake" as Ken and Barbie. What is the issue with that???????

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the devout religious believer. I am not nor do I suspect are you a deeply religious person if religious at all. I cannot claim to have a belief system in my life that I adhere to that requires worship, sin, etc, etc etc. However I DO recognize that the belief system for those who have it is a VERY powerful sway on their life, its WHY we have a 1st amendment in the first place.