security gate locks me out of my complex and management is unhelpful.

[Ladyback1]

How precisely does it present a security risk? If the car is outside of the complex (and the card has no markings identifying it's place of origin), how could it impact security? If the car is IN the complex, the security breach is in the complex, too, rendering said risk moot.
In any event, as my wife and I both use the card, it is logical that the card stay with the car, so that one of us doesn't end up carrying it off, and it being unavailable when needed.

Further, there was no warning given with the card that it could be impacted by heat.

OK, here goes, just what you want to hear:

Yes, it's all property management's fault. You should threaten to sue them for a gazillion bazillion dollars!

Seriously though: The technology used for key cards, key fobs, etc. can fail due to heat (they can also fail due to cold.) They can fail if they've been bent/creased, dropped too many times, or otherwise handled roughly.

And sometimes? These things just happen. It's a fluke. There is no rhyme or reason.
Twice in two weeks? very MINOR inconvenience. And there may not be anything the property mgr can do--especially if the card is reading that it is fine.

You need to make a written request for a new card (and maybe even pay the replacement fee, as there is no way to tell what or who is at fault). Or request a second card for the wife. Crap happens...sometimes technology doesn't always work like it's suppose to. No ONE person is at fault. Bits, pieces, parts, etc. just sometimes fail.

As far as security risk? Say a visitor to the complex lifted it out of your vehicle one night. Then the next night used it to gain access and kill someone.
If someone steals it out of your car, while it's not in the complex? You are under the mistaken impression that thiefs/criminals will not go to any lengths necessary to determine what exactly the key card opens--and then use said key card to their advantage. Would you keep the keys to your home in the car all the time??

 

[mrp5117]

We don't even know that it's the heat. I was just pointing something out.

I appreciate that. I also appreciate the attempts to figure out the issue with the card. This is not, however, my purpose in coming to this forum. My questions are quite simple really, but I will reiterate in the hope that one of you legal masterminds can provide me with insight that pertains to responsibility and liability.

1. Does the landlord have the legal responsibility to insure that legal tenants are able to access the property using the means and methods provided by the landlord for that express purpose?

2. What legal recourse do I as a tenant have in the event that I am continually subjected to the failure of the aforementioned means and methods to permit me access to my home?

 

[justalayman]

I do not doubt that you are right. My friends live in a community that apparently reads the card inside the car without the necessity of placing it against the reader, and automatically opens the gate. Which is a much more security conscious way, imo.

. Great stuff, when it works but it too fails occasionally.

nothing is 100% and depending on what the problem is, it could be something entirely beyond the control of the management. It happens. It is up to you to get all worked up about a couple times or figure that it isn't worth getting that upset about it. Frustrating? Sure. worth getting as excited as you are about it; not even close. Too many other things in life that keep me busy to worry about a couple failures of a security system.


btw: the fact they react each time you bring it to their attention is all you can legally expect


there is a 100% solution available such that you would never have to worry about it again;

live where there is no security gate.


when tech reaches the 100% dependable 100% of the time level, we'll give you a call on that cellphone that has a lot more problems than your key card does.

 

[justalayman]

[

1. Does the landlord have the legal responsibility to insure that legal tenants are able to access the property using the means and methods provided by the landlord for that express purpose?

yep and they have done that. Mind you, them having the responsibility does not mean they have to guarantee a 0% failure rate. It just means that they have to address the issue when there is a problem and they are doing that.

it would be no different than a tenant with a key to their door that was a problem. Does the landlord have to fix it? Sure. Is there recourse for the tenant because it has happened a couple times over the 2 years the tenant lived there? Nope.

2. What legal recourse do I as a tenant have in the event that I am continually subjected to the failure of the aforementioned means and methods to permit me access to my home?

seriously:

if you got this in front of a judge, he is either going to laugh until he passes out or chastise you for wasting the courts time. A couple times, especially since they have acted to address the problem, is not worthy of even considering legal action. It is beyond silly to consider it.

 

[Zigner]

I appreciate that. I also appreciate the attempts to figure out the issue with the card. This is not, however, my purpose in coming to this forum. My questions are quite simple really, but I will reiterate in the hope that one of you legal masterminds can provide me with insight that pertains to responsibility and liability.

1. Does the landlord have the legal responsibility to insure that legal tenants are able to access the property using the means and methods provided by the landlord for that express purpose?

2. What legal recourse do I as a tenant have in the event that I am continually subjected to the failure of the aforementioned means and methods to permit me access to my home?

Asked and answered. A glitch or two in a gate system doesn't represent an actionable matter.

 

[FarmerJ]

Now that Im awake , Id really like to ask ` did you ever think of talking with inspections and seeing if by chance a building inspector could meet you outside during one of these failures so that way they can send your LL a letter that cannot be disputed? other wise perhaps you could use a cell phones video feature and record several of these denied entrys and then burn them to a disc and send to your LL a letter with a copy of that disc that tells them this video is what you will be using in court when you sue them so you can show the court what your doing when you enter and the result. ( not really saying you have to sue them but the deal is that if they see proof that its not working and think your willing to make this a issue like your apt having a reduced value then maybe thats what it will take to get them to fix it, re issue you entirely new card thats totally different encoding or do something as off the wall as install touch pad for people to use pin for entry. )

 

[Zigner]

Now that Im awake , Id really like to ask ` did you ever think of talking with inspections and seeing if by chance a building inspector could meet you outside during one of these failures so that way they can send your LL a letter that cannot be disputed? other wise perhaps you could use a cell phones video feature and record several of these denied entrys and then burn them to a disc and send to your LL a letter with a copy of that disc that tells them this video is what you will be using in court when you sue them so you can show the court what your doing when you enter and the result. ( not really saying you have to sue them but the deal is that if they see proof that its not working and think your willing to make this a issue like your apt having a reduced value then maybe thats what it will take to get them to fix it, re issue you entirely new card thats totally different encoding or do something as off the wall as install touch pad for people to use pin for entry. )

OP is talking about two failures. Both of which occurred late at night and neither of which caused him but a few moments of time.

 

[quincy]

...
1. Does the landlord have the legal responsibility to insure that legal tenants are able to access the property using the means and methods provided by the landlord for that express purpose?

2. What legal recourse do I as a tenant have in the event that I am continually subjected to the failure of the aforementioned means and methods to permit me access to my home?

Here is a link to the landlord/tenant laws in Florida: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mo=Display_Statute&URL=0000-0099/0083/0083.html

Scroll down to "Residential tenancies" and look at sections 83.51 (2)(a)(2), 83.54 and 83.55 remedies, and 83.67 (2) prohibited practices.

The advice you received - to send a return receipt requested letter to the landlord detailing the problem with the key card once again and insisting on correction - is how best to handle this, if calls have not resulted in a resolution to the problem with entry.

 

[mrp5117]

OK, here goes, just what you want to hear:

Yes, it's all property management's fault. You should threaten to sue them for a gazillion bazillion dollars!

Seriously though: The technology used for key cards, key fobs, etc. can fail due to heat (they can also fail due to cold.) They can fail if they've been bent/creased, dropped too many times, or otherwise handled roughly.

And sometimes? These things just happen. It's a fluke. There is no rhyme or reason.
Twice in two weeks? very MINOR inconvenience. And there may not be anything the property mgr can do--especially if the card is reading that it is fine.

You need to make a written request for a new card (and maybe even pay the replacement fee, as there is no way to tell what or who is at fault). Or request a second card for the wife. Crap happens...sometimes technology doesn't always work like it's suppose to. No ONE person is at fault. Bits, pieces, parts, etc. just sometimes fail.

As far as security risk? Say a visitor to the complex lifted it out of your vehicle one night. Then the next night used it to gain access and kill someone.
If someone steals it out of your car, while it's not in the complex? You are under the mistaken impression that thiefs/criminals will not go to any lengths necessary to determine what exactly the key card opens--and then use said key card to their advantage. Would you keep the keys to your home in the car all the time??

Welcome to the party.

As the card apparently works only when it wants to, it does a great job with security, by not letting anyone in, with or without it.

Any criminal who wants to access the property need do no more than what I do, which is "wait by the street until someone comes out, then race thru the exit gate before it closes". That would probably be a more efficient use of a criminal's time than driving all around St. Pete, checking the keycard against every security gate of every apartment complex, of which there are dozens.

The average temperature of the human body is 98.6 degrees. It is, while warm in Florida, not that temperature yet, and certainly not in my air-conditioned vehicle, so according to your logic, my pocket would not be a good place to keep the card, either. What do you suggest? Glue it to a string and tie it around my neck?

The property gives you one card per car. Maybe you think I should buy a second car I don't need so I can get another card. That would be a wise investment.

The card is hard plastic and would break before bending. There is a compartment with a door by the steering wheel where I keep it. Incidentally, there is another card clipped to the visor used to access my wife's place of employment. It has never failed.

Many of the comments I have received consist of nothing but smarm, and not particularly well-considered smarm. Is anyone here an actual attorney? Or just a bunch of trolls looking to flex their sarcasm muscles? What a waste of what could be a useful resource.

 

[mrp5117]

Now that Im awake , Id really like to ask ` did you ever think of talking with inspections and seeing if by chance a building inspector could meet you outside during one of these failures so that way they can send your LL a letter that cannot be disputed? other wise perhaps you could use a cell phones video feature and record several of these denied entrys and then burn them to a disc and send to your LL a letter with a copy of that disc that tells them this video is what you will be using in court when you sue them so you can show the court what your doing when you enter and the result. ( not really saying you have to sue them but the deal is that if they see proof that its not working and think your willing to make this a issue like your apt having a reduced value then maybe thats what it will take to get them to fix it, re issue you entirely new card thats totally different encoding or do something as off the wall as install touch pad for people to use pin for entry. )

Thank you for an intelligent reply, though I think it may be difficult to get an inspector out at 2 am

 

[mrp5117]

Here is a link to the landlord/tenant laws in Florida: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mo=Display_Statute&URL=0000-0099/0083/0083.html

Scroll down to "Residential tenancies" and look at sections 83.51 (2)(a)(2), 83.54 and 83.55 remedies, and 83.67 (2) prohibited practices.

The advice you received - to send a return receipt requested letter to the landlord detailing the problem with the key card once again and insisting on correction - is how best to handle this, if calls have not resulted in a resolution to the problem with entry.

Thank you for your reply. It is refreshing to note that there are some here with an interest in addressing the problem.

 

[Ladyback1]

Welcome to the party.

As the card apparently works only when it wants to, it does a great job with security, by not letting anyone in, with or without it.

Any criminal who wants to access the property need do no more than what I do, which is "wait by the street until someone comes out, then race thru the exit gate before it closes". That would probably be a more efficient use of a criminal's time than driving all around St. Pete, checking the keycard against every security gate of every apartment complex, of which there are dozens.

The average temperature of the human body is 98.6 degrees. It is, while warm in Florida, not that temperature yet, and certainly not in my air-conditioned vehicle, so according to your logic, my pocket would not be a good place to keep the card, either. What do you suggest? Glue it to a string and tie it around my neck?

The property gives you one card per car. Maybe you think I should buy a second car I don't need so I can get another card. That would be a wise investment.

The card is hard plastic and would break before bending. There is a compartment with a door by the steering wheel where I keep it. Incidentally, there is another card clipped to the visor used to access my wife's place of employment. It has never failed.

Many of the comments I have received consist of nothing but smarm, and not particularly well-considered smarm. Is anyone here an actual attorney? Or just a bunch of trolls looking to flex their sarcasm muscles? What a waste of what could be a useful resource.

*sigh* If you leave it in the car, in the sun, all day---your car is certainly hotter than 98.6.

Look--you are WHINING because it's happened twice.
You have complained to management. They checked the card. It is, by their estimation fully functional.
What you FAIL to realize and understand is that CRAP HAPPENS. There is really nothing to fix, nothing to replace, it just happens! (Oh, and there can be "shorts" in the card. That would explain why it didn't work twice, but tested "normal". The only fix for that is a new card--one you may have to pay for!)
Unless this becomes a consistent and constant occurrence then you really have gotten yourself all worked up over nothing!

At this point in time? You have no legal recourse, except to request in writing a new card.
With your sparkling wit and charm, I'm sure the management office looks forward to every encounter with you!

 

[mrp5117]

OP is talking about two failures. Both of which occurred late at night and neither of which caused him but a few moments of time.

Two failures in two weeks, on the two days the system was supposedly "working", the rest of the time the gate was wide open for all.
A few moments of time simply because I was fortunate that someone happened to leave the complex. Had it been later, the delay could have been much greater.

 

[justalayman]

The average temperature of the human body is 98.6 degrees. It is, while warm in Florida, not that temperature yet, and certainly not in my air-conditioned vehicle, so according to your logic, my pocket would not be a good place to keep the card, either. What do you suggest? Glue it to a string and tie it around my neck?

oh, come on. are you dumb?


http://www.redrover.org/press-release/hot-cars-deadly-dogs-even-windows-rolled-down

Even seemingly mild days are dangerous. In a Stanford University study, when it was 72 degrees outside, a car’s internal temperature climbed to 116 degrees within one hour.

Enclosed cars heat up quickly. In a study by San Francisco State University, when it was 80 degrees outside, the temperature inside a car rose to 99 degrees in 10 minutes and 109 degrees in 20 minutes.


Studies show that cracking the windows has little effect on a vehicle’s internal temperature.

 

[mrp5117]

other wise perhaps you could use a cell phones video feature and record several of these denied entrys and then burn them to a disc and send to your LL a letter with a copy of that disc that tells them this video is what you will be using in court when you sue them so you can show the court what your doing when you enter and the result.QUOTE]

The more I think about this, the more I believe this to be a radical solution to my problem. If they see the equipment fail, then they can't say I am to blame, and it may influence them to make the necessary changes. Thanks again