Separated, what to do?

[Ohiogal]

If she was in physical danger then she should have immediately left the house with the children for a family member's - his or hers , a friend's or a shelter. She CHOSE to remain in the home therefore she was not truly afraid for her physical safety. Only an incompetent parent would remain - or allow children to do so - physically near someone who might physically harm them.

And this is where we are stuck. She has not shown fear. Nor has she answered ANY of my questions from the beginning of the thread. There is a reason for that. OG effect soon, I believe.

 

[LdiJ]

We also need to remember that these are very unusual times. There has been an increase of mental health issues - including alcohol and drug abuse, and confrontations in families due to the financial stresses and isolation of the pandemic.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and chill when there are disagreements that are unlikely to result in physical harm. They need to stop claiming "emotional abuse" when the entire country - actually most of the world - is under stress unknown in our lifetimes. The only thing that compares is an event like World War 2.

Hopefully, in a couple of years this nightmare will only be a bad memory.

Here is where you and I disagree. I agree that these are unusual times and that there is an increase in issues in families due mostly to COVID-19...due to being penned up together.

However I do NOT agree that anyone should tolerate any kind of abuse just because times are tough. I don't agree that everybody should "chill". No one ever knows when violence might strike. A friend of mine had to kick her normally easy going husband in the nuts yesterday because he just lost it and was destroying their home. Luckily that was enough to bring him out of it but she was fully prepared to call the police if that didn't stop him...and yes, she made him leave after that.

She doesn't intend to let him back in until serious counseling happens...and I agree with her.

 

[Ohiogal]

Here is where you and I disagree. I agree that these are unusual times and that there is an increase in issues in families due mostly to COVID-19...due to being penned up together.

However I do NOT agree that anyone should tolerate any kind of abuse just because times are tough. I don't agree that everybody should "chill". No one ever knows when violence might strike. A friend of mine had to kick her normally easy going husband in the nuts yesterday because he just lost it and was destroying their home. Luckily that was enough to bring him out of it but she was fully prepared to call the police if that didn't stop him...and yes, she made him leave after that.

She doesn't intend to let him back in until serious counseling happens...and I agree with her.

Your friend is NOT this OP. No one should tolerate abuse. However, the OP says she has not dealt with ANY abuse in over six months. That was emotional and verbal of which she has NO evidence. She has DONE NOTHING to protect her four year old or 1 year old at all. So the qyestion is what changed at Christmas? Her boyfriend/girlfriend press the issue? What made her DEMAND a divorce three times. He didn't get violent with that demand. Nothing stated that he was horrible during Christmas week except he didn't cave to OP. Who still hasn't answered me.

BTW -- demanding a divorce three times is appropriate in middle eastern countries to get a divorce. So... Is there a cultural issue?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Your friend is NOT this OP. No one should tolerate abuse. However, the OP says she has not dealt with ANY abuse in over six months. That was emotional and verbal of which she has NO evidence. She has DONE NOTHING to protect her four year old or 1 year old at all. So the qyestion is what changed at Christmas? Her boyfriend/girlfriend press the issue? What made her DEMAND a divorce three times. He didn't get violent with that demand. Nothing stated that he was horrible during Christmas week except he didn't cave to OP. Who still hasn't answered me.

BTW -- demanding a divorce three times is appropriate in middle eastern countries to get a divorce. So... Is there a cultural issue?

Yes, that's why I'm tempted to call BS on abuse. Or, at least, on using "abuse" to get rid of the dude.

Because personally, I can remember the moment when something inside me snapped and I knew it was over and I'd had it. I was being punched at the time in front of our toddler...

What was the real tipping point for OP? Did her husband forget to give her a Christmas gift?

 

[t74]

Here is where you and I disagree. I agree that these are unusual times and that there is an increase in issues in families due mostly to COVID-19...due to being penned up together.

However I do NOT agree that anyone should tolerate any kind of abuse just because times are tough. I don't agree that everybody should "chill". No one ever knows when violence might strike. A friend of mine had to kick her normally easy going husband in the nuts yesterday because he just lost it and was destroying their home. Luckily that was enough to bring him out of it but she was fully prepared to call the police if that didn't stop him...and yes, she made him leave after that.

She doesn't intend to let him back in until serious counseling happens...and I agree with her.

It is his house too. If she were truly afraid, she would have left the house immediately! She had no right to "make" him leave their shared home. Unless she has a court order, she has no right to keep him out. Since she did not call the police, it was obviously not as big a deal as you are making out.

I repeat; if a person is in fear dor their safety, they should flee not escalate the fight.

 

[LdiJ]

It is his house too. If she were truly afraid, she would have left the house immediately! She had no right to "make" him leave their shared home. Unless she has a court order, she has no right to keep him out. Since she did not call the police, it was obviously not as big a deal as you are making out.

I repeat; if a person is in fear dor their safety, they should flee not escalate the fight.

Ok, T74, of course you are perfectly right and anyone who disagrees with you is completely wrong.

 

[t74]

Ok, T74, of course you are perfectly right and anyone who disagrees with you is completely wrong.

One's actions speak louder than one's words.

 

[stealth2]

Ok, T74, of course you are perfectly right and anyone who disagrees with you is completely wrong.

The fact seems to remain, LDi, that there has been no abusive behavior for six months. So the question is still - why was it so crucial to insist on divorce numerous times during the holidays?

 

[afng21]

And this is where we are stuck. She has not shown fear. Nor has she answered ANY of my questions from the beginning of the thread. There is a reason for that. OG effect soon, I believe.

I reread your posts and the only question I see that you asked was "What proof do I have of abuse?" to which I answered. There is one arrest and the police reports. It sounds like beyond that anything I have, wouldn't legally be considered proof. He plead guilty to domestic battery. There was a no contact order for 1 year, which I will admit was ignored. I think if you've never been in an abusive relationship you can't really understand how easy it is to be sucked in and stay sucked in. I think given you don't know the situation, it's not fair for you to presume I'm to blame for everything.

I appreciate all the weigh in, but you're all making assumptions without knowing the whole story. I did not say there wasn't ANY abuse for the last 6 months. I said there was no physical abuse. There was most definitely verbal and emotional abuse from day one. I am currently in therapy and have been for 2 years. My estranged husband is an alcoholic, who in an attempt to get sober on his own and became much more verbally abusive. There were 3-4 consistent weeks of arguments with threats and degradation. He would drink and verbally abuse me, calling me names, telling me he'd take the kids. He would threaten to leave and withhold financial support. On one occasion he looked up my location, went into multiple businesses to ask where I was, and accused me of cheating - I was at a mandatory staff meeting for work. Prior to this the arguments were once every 3-4 weeks, because I would hole up in the bedroom after the kids went to bed to avoid him.

Because of the therapy I have learned that I don't have to tolerate the abuse. I expressed wanting a divorce to my therapist, and on his advice, I asked for a trial separation first. My husband was not interested in this. We had the conversation 2-3 times prior to Christmas, which we celebrated on Christmas Eve. My HUSBAND made the choice to leave on Christmas Day. I did not ask him to leave at all. I simply told him that if he didn't want a trial separation then I felt that divorce was the best option; I was at the point where too much damage had been done to heal and repair under the same household. I came downstairs to him packing up himself and his daughter. There was, amazingly, no fighting. We exchanged a few words but it wasn't a violent argument or voices raised. So no Christmas ruined for the kids. Up until that point we had essentially been living separately in the same house for about a week. We avoided each other and talking, especially when he was drinking. I would have been fine with this arrangement continuing until divorce was filed, but HE chose to leave me and the boys.

After he moved out I found out he had been cheating on me with his daughter's mom at least going back into November, if not further. I only have proof from November at the earliest. The week after he left, he never asked about the boys. He only asked about money - the stimulus checks and tax refund we'll be getting. He made no attempt to try to see or talk to the boys. When I offered to let him see them, he waited almost a full 24 hours before getting back to me. He has 4 kids previously that he had nothing to do with before he recently reconnected with his daughter. His oldest two he signed over rights for, and his 3rd he never bothered to establish paternity, see, or support.

I work a salaried job for a doctor. I am more than capable of paying the bills on my own, but I still live paycheck to paycheck so having a huge chunk of money for an attorney's retainer is another story. Which is why I applied for Indiana Legal Services. My husband at the end was only bringing home less than $200 a week because he stayed home 2-3 days weekly from drinking too much or withdrawing. I don't NEED the child support to survive, but he has a legal obligation to take care of the kids he left behind.

Even without recent physical abuse, the threat of it as well as our history made me fear for what would happen if I left. As I said, the therapy and work I've been doing on myself allowed me to come to the decision to finally be done. Without that therapy, all that mattered was not being alone, which is why I stayed for so long. I am working on myself for me and the kids.

I filed for child support through the local office. He states he is going to seek representation, and while I'm waiting on whether ILS will take my case, filing for divorce is at a standstill. I know I want to consult with someone in person before filing, and he may never file. He was married to his previous wife for 5 years after they separated before finally filing.

I hope I answered all the questions. There were a lot of replies since my last login.

 

[Ohiogal]

I reread your posts and the only question I see that you asked was "What proof do I have of abuse?" to which I answered. There is one arrest and the police reports. It sounds like beyond that anything I have, wouldn't legally be considered proof. He plead guilty to domestic battery.

POLICE REPORTS are not admissible. They are hearsay. An arrest matters not. A conviction might have but NOPE. You forgave it. To the point that you had no problem ignoring a no contact order. Hence doesn't matter now.

There was a no contact order for 1 year, which I will admit was ignored. I think if you've never been in an abusive relationship you can't really understand how easy it is to be sucked in and stay sucked in. I think given you don't know the situation, it's not fair for you to presume I'm to blame for everything.

I didn't say you were to blame for everything. What I am saying is your actions speak louder than your words. Your actions bely your complaints of abuse. You IGNORED a no contact order.

I appreciate all the weigh in, but you're all making assumptions without knowing the whole story. I did not say there wasn't ANY abuse for the last 6 months. I said there was no physical abuse. There was most definitely verbal and emotional abuse from day one.

And how much did you participate in?

I am currently in therapy and have been for 2 years. My estranged husband is an alcoholic, who in an attempt to get sober on his own and became much more verbally abusive. There were 3-4 consistent weeks of arguments with threats and degradation. He would drink and verbally abuse me, calling me names, telling me he'd take the kids.

And you are telling the forum you will take the kids. YOU threw him out of the house. YOU want to prevent him from having contact with his children. How is that different than him telling you he'd take your children? You never called him names? Never screamed at him?

He would threaten to leave and withhold financial support. On one occasion he looked up my location, went into multiple businesses to ask where I was, and accused me of cheating - I was at a mandatory staff meeting for work. Prior to this the arguments were once every 3-4 weeks, because I would hole up in the bedroom after the kids went to bed to avoid him.

And you didn't leave and you exposed the children to this. You voluntarily exposed them to these issues. And after a no contact order you had another child with him. And withhold financial support? Really? Later in your post, you stated you didn't need him.

Because of the therapy I have learned that I don't have to tolerate the abuse. I expressed wanting a divorce to my therapist, and on his advice, I asked for a trial separation first. My husband was not interested in this. We had the conversation 2-3 times prior to Christmas, which we celebrated on Christmas Eve. My HUSBAND made the choice to leave on Christmas Day. I did not ask him to leave at all. I simply told him that if he didn't want a trial separation then I felt that divorce was the best option; I was at the point where too much damage had been done to heal and repair under the same household. I came downstairs to him packing up himself and his daughter. There was, amazingly, no fighting. We exchanged a few words but it wasn't a violent argument or voices raised. So no Christmas ruined for the kids. Up until that point we had essentially been living separately in the same house for about a week. We avoided each other and talking, especially when he was drinking. I would have been fine with this arrangement continuing until divorce was filed, but HE chose to leave me and the boys.

I note you take no responsibility for anything. HE is the abusive one. HE chose to leave. HE threatened to take the children. HE ....

After he moved out I found out he had been cheating on me with his daughter's mom at least going back into November, if not further. I only have proof from November at the earliest.

And? Doesn't matter.

The week after he left, he never asked about the boys. He only asked about money - the stimulus checks and tax refund we'll be getting.

He is entitled to half that money.

He made no attempt to try to see or talk to the boys. When I offered to let him see them, he waited almost a full 24 hours before getting back to me. He has 4 kids previously that he had nothing to do with before he recently reconnected with his daughter. His oldest two he signed over rights for, and his 3rd he never bothered to establish paternity, see, or support.

And yet you chose to have two children with him. Nice choice. A full 24 hours? Oh you expected him to jump when you snapped your fingers.

I work a salaried job for a doctor. I am more than capable of paying the bills on my own, but I still live paycheck to paycheck so having a huge chunk of money for an attorney's retainer is another story. Which is why I applied for Indiana Legal Services. My husband at the end was only bringing home less than $200 a week because he stayed home 2-3 days weekly from drinking too much or withdrawing. I don't NEED the child support to survive, but he has a legal obligation to take care of the kids he left behind

.

So how did he threaten to withhold financial support? He has other children ... he has a legal obligation to them as well. Why are your children more important?

Even without recent physical abuse, the threat of it as well as our history made me fear for what would happen if I left. As I said, the therapy and work I've been doing on myself allowed me to come to the decision to finally be done. Without that therapy, all that mattered was not being alone, which is why I stayed for so long. I am working on myself for me and the kids.

I filed for child support through the local office. He states he is going to seek representation, and while I'm waiting on whether ILS will take my case, filing for divorce is at a standstill. I know I want to consult with someone in person before filing, and he may never file. He was married to his previous wife for 5 years after they separated before finally filing.

I hope I answered all the questions. There were a lot of replies since my last login.

You have issues and are not comprehending what is evidence and what is not. You are also not taking responsibility for your part in this and your role in this marriage.

 

[afng21]

POLICE REPORTS are not admissible. They are hearsay. An arrest matters not. A conviction might have but NOPE. You forgave it. To the point that you had no problem ignoring a no contact order. Hence doesn't matter now.


I didn't say you were to blame for everything. What I am saying is your actions speak louder than your words. Your actions bely your complaints of abuse. You IGNORED a no contact order.


And how much did you participate in?


And you are telling the forum you will take the kids. YOU threw him out of the house. YOU want to prevent him from having contact with his children. How is that different than him telling you he'd take your children? You never called him names? Never screamed at him?


And you didn't leave and you exposed the children to this. You voluntarily exposed them to these issues. And after a no contact order you had another child with him. And withhold financial support? Really? Later in your post, you stated you didn't need him.


I note you take no responsibility for anything. HE is the abusive one. HE chose to leave. HE threatened to take the children. HE ....

And? Doesn't matter.

He is entitled to half that money.

And yet you chose to have two children with him. Nice choice. A full 24 hours? Oh you expected him to jump when you snapped your fingers.
.

So how did he threaten to withhold financial support? He has other children ... he has a legal obligation to them as well. Why are your children more important?

You have issues and are not comprehending what is evidence and what is not. You are also not taking responsibility for your part in this and your role in this marriage.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks for your input.

It is legal fact.

 

[afng21]

It is legal fact.

Okay, thank you.

 

[wt817]

An arrest history MEANS NOTHING. It is hearsay and not admissble by the rules of evidence. Wanting legal aid means she has poverty level income. That is who legal aid helps. She has tolerated it for at least four years. Since the ONE plea. She has stated there was nothing recent. SHE has not shown she really fears him but rather this appears to be a play for her to grab custody.

She has yet to answer a single question I have asked. Interesting, since I am the ONLY attorney who HAS answered her. Yet not one question answered. She is either incredibly ignorant, incredibly selfish, or this is dad trying to find out information. Which one are you afng21? Which by the way is interesting. You 21 years old?

I presume the 21 was for the year. She wrote the post on the 1st.

 

[t74]

If you are living paycheck to paycheck, you need to reevaluate your living situation before committing to renewing the lease in your name. It is a plus that you are employed, but the financial problems of single parents are well documented. You have no backup. In addition, besides your shared young children, there was an older child present for your Christmas week mess. Your shared children are at the back of a long line for your DH's resources.

And, the additional information you provided makes you look really bad. He had a history which you chose to ignore when you became involved with him. I suspect that the "bad boy" was attractive to you, and you participated in that lifestyle before you had the responsibility for 2 children.

I hope your therapist is helping you understand why you have made questionable choices and is not just making suggestions on what you should do now otherwise I would expect you to go from one toxic relationship to another.