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Stipulation from dad

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summerdawn

Senior Member
Yeah... have any idea of what THAT costs?????? If I remember correctly, the OP isn't exactly rolling in dough.
Wow, really? It costs that much to purchase transcripts?

I supposed it would be illegal or something if I took a small hand held recorder like one uses to record college lectures into the courtroom, wouldn't it? It would be so useful to just set it on record during the trial and be able to play everything back afterwards for my own reference...
 


CourtClerk

Senior Member
The only recording devices allowed in a courthouse are the ones that the court owns, unless you have an order from the judge stating you can utilize one (which you won't get).
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
How much has it cost her in all the years she's been messing around - lost child support, lost alimony (if any), lost time spent fooling around with the courts when she could be working, and, apparently, many hundreds of thousands of dollars in therapy to get over the whole mess?

Sometimes, pinching pennies is a foolish thing to do.
While that may be true, attorneys you can make payments to, I don't think she was married to this dude, if she's not working, she doesn't have a good reason - and this wouldn't be one anyway -

however, a court reporter's time is worth a lot of money and she's have to come up with that money up front and in one lump sum. Lots of people don't have access to that kind of cash, especially if they can't afford an attorney. We're talking a couple of hundred bucks can be spent EASILY.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
While that may be true, attorneys you can make payments to, I don't think she was married to this dude, if she's not working, she doesn't have a good reason - and this wouldn't be one anyway -

however, a court reporter's time is worth a lot of money and she's have to come up with that money up front and in one lump sum. Lots of people don't have access to that kind of cash, especially if they can't afford an attorney. We're talking a couple of hundred bucks can be spent EASILY.
Sure. A couple hundred bucks.

Compared to the YEARS she's spent fighting the battle and years worth of agony and pain.

Heck, if she simply had a part time job with the hours she's spent complaining here, it would be more than enough to pay for a court reporter.
 

summerdawn

Senior Member
Update

Father has been in contact with me and we are actually working hard on settling out of court. We continued our court date that was supposed to be Monday, so we have until may to settle on a stipulation together. I have put my own stipulation together based solely on the mediator's report, and I was wondering if you all might review it and tell me if it looks ok:

THE PARTIES HEREBY STIPULATE as follows:

1. That the parties herein have reached an agreement (previously filed with the court) relating to the issues set to be heard on March 21, 2011,:

2. That the parties no longer wish to be heard on the above date and time;

3. Therefore, the parties hereby stipulate that the Order to Show Cause presently set for May 17, 2011 at 8:30 a.m. shall go off calendar. That no appearance is required by either party.

4. That the parties herein shall modify father’s visitation to include altered time in the summer. Starting June 11th, the father shall have the children in his care on alternating weeks from Saturday at 6:30pm until the following Saturday dropping them off at 6:30pm. The weekend before school begins, the father's time shall go back to every second and fourth weekend and every fifth weekend in odd months, from Friday at 6:30pm until Sunday at 6:30pm.

5. Parents shall consult with one another and reach a consensus prior to the children being removed from their current schools.

6. The parents agree to communicate directly with one another and not through third parties. Mother and father's wife shall not contact one another unless communication is necessary in the event of an emergency.

7. The parents shall communicate directly with one another regarding the children's health, education and welfare via telephone.

8. Each parent shall research a co-parenting education options and complete a program that is affordable. (Referrals were provided to each parent during mediation.)

9 If either parent is running late for an exchange he/she will provide notice to other parent of the expected arrival time.

10. Both parents shall appropriately treat the children for head lice when an outbreak occurs and shall notify the other parent as soon as possible of same. The parents shall share information with one another regarding their treatment efforts with regard to products used, actions taken, additional actions needed, etc.

11. Neither parent shall make any negative or disparaging comments about the other parent in the presence or hearing of the children nor allow any other person or family members to do so.

12. The children shall not be physically disciplined by any third parties.


13. All other orders that don’t conflict with this order shall remain in full force and effect.

b. Both parties have had notice and opportunity to be heard with respect to the issue of child custody and visitation as evidenced by the court pleadings and signature on this Stipulated Order.

c. The custody and visitation rights of each party are set forth in the immediately preceding paragraphs.

d. Both parties are advised that a violation of this Court's Order with respect to custody and visitation may subject the party in violation to civil or criminal penalties, or both
e. The United States of America is the country of habitual residence of the children.

f. The court has considered the factors set forth in Family Code section 3048(b)(1) and finds that there is not a risk of abduction of the children by either party.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Father has been in contact with me and we are actually working hard on settling out of court. We continued our court date that was supposed to be Monday, so we have until may to settle on a stipulation together. I have put my own stipulation together based solely on the mediator's report, and I was wondering if you all might review it and tell me if it looks ok:

THE PARTIES HEREBY STIPULATE as follows:

1. That the parties herein have reached an agreement (previously filed with the court) relating to the issues set to be heard on March 21, 2011,:

2. That the parties no longer wish to be heard on the above date and time;

3. Therefore, the parties hereby stipulate that the Order to Show Cause presently set for May 17, 2011 at 8:30 a.m. shall go off calendar. That no appearance is required by either party.

4. That the parties herein shall modify father’s visitation to include altered time in the summer. Starting June 11th, the father shall have the children in his care on alternating weeks from Saturday at 6:30pm until the following Saturday dropping them off at 6:30pm. The weekend before school begins, the father's time shall go back to every second and fourth weekend and every fifth weekend in odd months, from Friday at 6:30pm until Sunday at 6:30pm.

5. Parents shall consult with one another and reach a consensus prior to the children being removed from their current schools.

6. The parents agree to communicate directly with one another and not through third parties. Mother and father's wife shall not contact one another unless communication is necessary in the event of an emergency.

7. The parents shall communicate directly with one another regarding the children's health, education and welfare via telephone.

8. Each parent shall research a co-parenting education options and complete a program that is affordable. (Referrals were provided to each parent during mediation.)

9 If either parent is running late for an exchange he/she will provide notice to other parent of the expected arrival time.

10. Both parents shall appropriately treat the children for head lice when an outbreak occurs and shall notify the other parent as soon as possible of same. The parents shall share information with one another regarding their treatment efforts with regard to products used, actions taken, additional actions needed, etc.

11. Neither parent shall make any negative or disparaging comments about the other parent in the presence or hearing of the children nor allow any other person or family members to do so.

12. The children shall not be physically disciplined by any third parties.


13. All other orders that don’t conflict with this order shall remain in full force and effect.

b. Both parties have had notice and opportunity to be heard with respect to the issue of child custody and visitation as evidenced by the court pleadings and signature on this Stipulated Order.

c. The custody and visitation rights of each party are set forth in the immediately preceding paragraphs.

d. Both parties are advised that a violation of this Court's Order with respect to custody and visitation may subject the party in violation to civil or criminal penalties, or both
e. The United States of America is the country of habitual residence of the children.

f. The court has considered the factors set forth in Family Code section 3048(b)(1) and finds that there is not a risk of abduction of the children by either party.
Looks good to me, but I am certain that ex's wife won't like it.
 

summerdawn

Senior Member
You called it LDiJ, he's already stating he would like to just take it to court, and I just sent it to him about an hour ago. Oh well. :(
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
Father has been in contact with me and we are actually working hard on settling out of court. We continued our court date that was supposed to be Monday, so we have until may to settle on a stipulation together. I have put my own stipulation together based solely on the mediator's report, and I was wondering if you all might review it and tell me if it looks ok:
Always WAY better if the two of you can agree on something. I'll only comment on the following items.

4. That the parties herein shall modify father’s visitation to include altered time in the summer. Starting June 11th, the father shall have the children in his care on alternating weeks from Saturday at 6:30pm until the following Saturday dropping them off at 6:30pm. The weekend before school begins, the father's time shall go back to every second and fourth weekend and every fifth weekend in odd months, from Friday at 6:30pm until Sunday at 6:30pm.
Pretty good, but some room for confusion.

For example, as I understand it, the alternating weeks don't really start on June 11, but on the first Saturday after June 11. But what if June 11 is a Saturday? In addition, when you say 'alternating weeks', it's not clear who goes first.

I would say something like:
Father shall have the children beginning at 6:30 pm on the first Saturday after June 11 (including June 11) until the following Saturday at 6:30 pm, and then every other week from Saturday at 6:30 pm to the following Saturday at 6:30 pm. You can probably come up with better wording, but you want to make sure there's no confusion.

"odd months" is unusual terminology. I'd simply say that Dad has the second, fourth, and fifth weekend at those times. If there is no 5th weekend, it doesn't apply.

The bigger problem is "what is the 2nd, 4th, and 5th weekend". Let's say that the month starts on Sunday - which is the first weekend? What if it starts on Saturday - which is the first weekend? And what if the month ends on Friday? is that a weekend? What if it ends on Saturday? Is that a weekend?

Frankly, I think all of those things make "2nd, 4th, and 5th weekends" confusing. If you say, every other weekend and choose a starting point, there's nothing to fight about later. You can enter it into a calendar on a computer with just a few keystrokes and the 'every other weekend' will automatically be marked for the next 20 years if you wish.

5. Parents shall consult with one another and reach a consensus prior to the children being removed from their current schools.
I might reverse this. Saying that the parents shall reach a consensus implies that the court is ordering you to agree - which can't happen. Rather, I'd say something like "Children will remain in their current school system unless both parents agree to a change".


6. The parents agree to communicate directly with one another and not through third parties. Mother and father's wife shall not contact one another unless communication is necessary in the event of an emergency.
OK.

7. The parents shall communicate directly with one another regarding the children's health, education and welfare via telephone.
I'm not so sure about this one. Some people just communicate more effectively by email. I can't stand talking with my ex by phone - she drives me up a wall. But as long as we can keep it to email, we do OK (email also provides a written record). You know what works for the two of you and if telephone is what's best, go ahead. But don't rule out other options without thinking about it.

8. Each parent shall research a co-parenting education options and complete a program that is affordable. (Referrals were provided to each parent during mediation.)
When? What is affordable? What happens if you don't do it (a court is unlikely to find someone in contempt for not taking a co-parenting class, especially when the order is so vague).

Is the price something that you can both afford? If so, leave it out. Simply state that each parent will complete at least one of the co-parenting education classes on the referral sheet within one year. (In extreme cases, one could even specify a punishment if this isn't done - that visitation would be suspended until the class was completed, but I really wouldn't go there).

9 If either parent is running late for an exchange he/she will provide notice to other parent of the expected arrival time.
What if they don't? And what if the parent simply doesn't show up?

I assume that the intent of this is that CP doesn't want to be sitting around all weekend waiting for the other parent to pick up the kids. If so, address that issue directly - such as "if a parent has not arrived to pick up the children within 1 hour of the scheduled time without making alternate arrangements with the other parent, the parent can assume that they are not coming for that weekend". I'm not really recommending that because it doesn't work for all situations, but I want you to think about the objections. Or maybe you go ahead and use your wording and then say if the other parent doesn't arrive within 1 hour and hasn't provided notice, that the other parent can return home. Or whatever.

10. Both parents shall appropriately treat the children for head lice when an outbreak occurs and shall notify the other parent as soon as possible of same. The parents shall share information with one another regarding their treatment efforts with regard to products used, actions taken, additional actions needed, etc.
OK. Do you want to limit this to head lice or included other medical problems, too?

11. Neither parent shall make any negative or disparaging comments about the other parent in the presence or hearing of the children nor allow any other person or family members to do so.
The latter part is often used, but not really enforceable. I can't prevent a family member from saying whatever they want. Perhaps "and will attempt to prevent any other person or family member {most of my family members are persons, so this is redundant -- with just a few exceptions :D} from doing so" rather than "nor allow any other person"

12. The children shall not be physically disciplined by any third parties.
What is physical discipline? Someone might argue that forcing the child to sit in corner is physical punishment. I might be clearer "no hitting, spanking, etc by third parties".



Good luck.
 

SESmama

Member
I think my only comment (that misto did not cover) is the 2/4/5 weekend.

I would state some thing of the fact that the father shall have the 2nd, 4th, and 5th weekend. The weekend shall be determined by the ordinal of the Friday. That would mean if the 1st of the month fell on a Saturday then the weekend belongs to the previous month. Besides, there are generally only 2-3 5th weekends in a year.

In my PP we have it stated that standard parenting time (1/3 weekends) is suspended during the summer holiday from school. Little dude only gets 8 weeks of summer and we each get 3 weeks so to try and schedule around standard weekends is only asking for trouble. With the standard time suspended it is no worry.
 

summerdawn

Senior Member
Always WAY better if the two of you can agree on something. I'll only comment on the following items.



Pretty good, but some room for confusion.

For example, as I understand it, the alternating weeks don't really start on June 11, but on the first Saturday after June 11. But what if June 11 is a Saturday? In addition, when you say 'alternating weeks', it's not clear who goes first.

I would say something like:
Father shall have the children beginning at 6:30 pm on the first Saturday after June 11 (including June 11) until the following Saturday at 6:30 pm, and then every other week from Saturday at 6:30 pm to the following Saturday at 6:30 pm. You can probably come up with better wording, but you want to make sure there's no confusion.

"odd months" is unusual terminology. I'd simply say that Dad has the second, fourth, and fifth weekend at those times. If there is no 5th weekend, it doesn't apply.

The bigger problem is "what is the 2nd, 4th, and 5th weekend". Let's say that the month starts on Sunday - which is the first weekend? What if it starts on Saturday - which is the first weekend? And what if the month ends on Friday? is that a weekend? What if it ends on Saturday? Is that a weekend?

Frankly, I think all of those things make "2nd, 4th, and 5th weekends" confusing. If you say, every other weekend and choose a starting point, there's nothing to fight about later. You can enter it into a calendar on a computer with just a few keystrokes and the 'every other weekend' will automatically be marked for the next 20 years if you wish.
This was actually their wording, I left it as it was. He has 2nd and 4th weekends, and 5th in odd months, in this way he can have a couple of weekends in a row and I can have a couple of weekends in a row occasionally.



I might reverse this. Saying that the parents shall reach a consensus implies that the court is ordering you to agree - which can't happen. Rather, I'd say something like "Children will remain in their current school system unless both parents agree to a change".
I took this straight out of the mediator's report, it had to do with us moving...she thought it was an easy way to say i could move, but couldn't take the kids out of their school-because he was trying to block me from moving to a place in the same city, where I could actually take them to the same school if I needed to.




OK.



I'm not so sure about this one. Some people just communicate more effectively by email. I can't stand talking with my ex by phone - she drives me up a wall. But as long as we can keep it to email, we do OK (email also provides a written record). You know what works for the two of you and if telephone is what's best, go ahead. But don't rule out other options without thinking about it.
She only inserted this because his wife kept emailing me instead of him. He is fighting it anyways. I did try to modify it to add "for emergency purposes" to the end of the statement but he doesn't like that either.



When? What is affordable? What happens if you don't do it (a court is unlikely to find someone in contempt for not taking a co-parenting class, especially when the order is so vague).

Is the price something that you can both afford? If so, leave it out. Simply state that each parent will complete at least one of the co-parenting education classes on the referral sheet within one year. (In extreme cases, one could even specify a punishment if this isn't done - that visitation would be suspended until the class was completed, but I really wouldn't go there).
I honestly don't know. She was trying to work with us because he stated that he couldn't afford it, but every mediator we've seen (3 in the last 3 years) has tried to have us take a co parenting class and he has refused.



What if they don't? And what if the parent simply doesn't show up?

I assume that the intent of this is that CP doesn't want to be sitting around all weekend waiting for the other parent to pick up the kids. If so, address that issue directly - such as "if a parent has not arrived to pick up the children within 1 hour of the scheduled time without making alternate arrangements with the other parent, the parent can assume that they are not coming for that weekend". I'm not really recommending that because it doesn't work for all situations, but I want you to think about the objections. Or maybe you go ahead and use your wording and then say if the other parent doesn't arrive within 1 hour and hasn't provided notice, that the other parent can return home. Or whatever.
Actually, this is because he and his wife are often late bringing the kids back home. On New Year's Day they were supposed to bring the girls back at noon. They didn't bring them back until 6:30 at night. Nobody let me know that they were running late so I sat in the cold outside waiting for an hour. This has happened several times where i've been outside in the rain or in the cold for at least a half hour. They have never once called to tell me they would be late.



OK. Do you want to limit this to head lice or included other medical problems, too?
He just wants to include headlice, he doesn't participate in any of their medical care. He has asked me not to contact him about medical problems unless it is a life or death situation.



The latter part is often used, but not really enforceable. I can't prevent a family member from saying whatever they want. Perhaps "and will attempt to prevent any other person or family member {most of my family members are persons, so this is redundant -- with just a few exceptions :D} from doing so" rather than "nor allow any other person"
We already had this in the Co, he just wanted it there again.


What is physical discipline? Someone might argue that forcing the child to sit in corner is physical punishment. I might be clearer "no hitting, spanking, etc by third parties".
Thank you, I didn't think about this. They had originally discussed no spanking by third parties, I think your wording is better.



Good luck.
Thanks. He is not willing to negotiate any further right now, and is for some reason bringing all kinds of stuff from our past up, but as the court date moves closer I am hoping he will try to work through this again with me. I'm just going to leave him alone for now, but I am going to keep your suggestions just in case he does contact me to talk some more about this.
 

SESmama

Member
I wonder if dad is perhaps playing a game. Let the court date come up, get through mediation, act like he wants to settle, let the court date go (postpone court), and then not agree again. Just to keep this going. I've seen it but it may be my cynical eyes.
 

summerdawn

Senior Member
I think my only comment (that misto did not cover) is the 2/4/5 weekend.

I would state some thing of the fact that the father shall have the 2nd, 4th, and 5th weekend. The weekend shall be determined by the ordinal of the Friday. That would mean if the 1st of the month fell on a Saturday then the weekend belongs to the previous month. Besides, there are generally only 2-3 5th weekends in a year.

In my PP we have it stated that standard parenting time (1/3 weekends) is suspended during the summer holiday from school. Little dude only gets 8 weeks of summer and we each get 3 weeks so to try and schedule around standard weekends is only asking for trouble. With the standard time suspended it is no worry.
In our current CO, we have something that states "The weekend is defined as the first full weekend in a month" or some such. The way it is worded it actually leaves me to have the children on those rare weekends where Saturday falls in one month and Sunday falls in the next.

I don't think we have anything suspending regular visitation for summer. I just thought it was a given, kind of like the holiday visitation taking precedence...
 

MichaCA

Senior Member
Summerdawn,

I don't recall the previous thread...exactly what happened to the mediators report.

****Did a mediation report ever get sent to you or ex?

After you dicker around with ex, and its clear you two cannot reach agreement, I would file papers with the court of your proposed plan.

As an introduction and/or conclusion I would write who your mediator was, your understanding of what was agreed upon, and even the mediators comments regarding you two agreeing. (this is all absent an actual mediation report).

It will be hard for dad to say "I didn't agree to any of that" when someone can just place a call to mediation services and talk to the mediator. At the very least, the judge may see how dad is jacking you around.

Again, I don't recall the previous post - it seemed like after mediation dads attorney called off the court date? So how did you have a court date on Monday?

When you file your papers, request that the court orders what was agreed on in mediation. Of course, dads attorney will fight it in court. Stick to your guns and keep requesting the agreement you made in mediation. Unless dad presents something very reasonable (which you can work out before court), there is a good chance the judge will go with your recommendation IMO.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
In our current CO, we have something that states "The weekend is defined as the first full weekend in a month" or some such. The way it is worded it actually leaves me to have the children on those rare weekends where Saturday falls in one month and Sunday falls in the next.
That works - although you might even say "a full weekend is defined as any weekend when both Saturday and Sunday fall in the month" or something like that (after all, his visitation starts on Friday, so he could argue that 'full weekend' means that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday have to all fall in the same month for it to be a full weekend).

In any event, the point is clear - make sure the wording is 100% crystal clear and can not be easily misinterpreted. Given the history, if there's ANY room for misinterpretation, they're going to end up back in court.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
You could have someone who marks up a calendar based on what they read to see if that is what you meant.

Otherwise, be crystal clear about what a "weekend" is.
 

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