Want the money I paid back.

[Griffzan]

the only thing that comes to mind is when the changes (income, living arrangements) took place, something was not modified with the state assistance as it should have been. state assistance is not what it used to be. they want their money back. and they aren't playing around about it.

and considering at least in California (which i found to be one of the meaner states) when you have two people in househoild, means you have two potential incomes. regardless if you are both employed or not. current child support can be stopped easy enough. however, arrears are a little harder when you owe the state. what you owe your wife, may be signed off. but essentially, any arrears owed the state is even harder to modify.

i've read this several times and it really looks as if your wife omitted pertintent information accidently or intentionally or someone just plain didn't file something right.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean but in order to get on her grant and stay on her grant we have to recertify every three months (or 90 days) and they want my check stubs, her check stubs, past bills and house payment info, trust me there's nothing we've omitted not even accidently, if we leave something out they think we may need, any assistance is stopped or suspended until we can provide them with what they want to know.

 

[Griffzan]

What really sucks is, someone mentioned before that I should have learnd from my mistakes and stopped having children I couldn't afford, I can afford my kids. I don't have a problem choosing what's more important: wants or needs, it's the supporting my children AND paying child support I can't do.

 

[jbowman]

I would just like to clarify in case someone else comes to this site for information:

You arent paying child support. You are paying back the state for supporting you, your now-wife and your children. You must think of all the assistance they have given your family over the years as a loan. Loans have interest. Youve got to pay it back. It was never intended to be free money. I think that is a mistake many many people make. They do not realize that this money is meant to be paid back.

You state that you CAN support your children. But at the time you could not, therefore the state had to do it for you, or help you, whichever. Now they want their money back.

 

[Griffzan]

I would just like to clarify in case someone else comes to this site for information:

You arent paying child support. You are paying back the state for supporting you, your now-wife and your children. You must think of all the assistance they have given your family over the years as a loan. Loans have interest. Youve got to pay it back. It was never intended to be free money. I think that is a mistake many many people make. They do not realize that this money is meant to be paid back.

You state that you CAN support your children. But at the time you could not, therefore the state had to do it for you, or help you, whichever. Now they want their money back.

No, at the time I could support my children and was doing well with what little support they were offering and that suport didn't go up or down when I finally was able to get on her grant, so we obviuosly need or needed the some type of support, how much was decided by them we never went to FIA and said "We need help, give us money pay our bills, pay for this and this and this......" Most jobs here in Mich don't offer medical insurance or insurance that can be afforded by everyone, so we NEEDED not wanted insurance for our kids, me personally would like to go without it, for it implies I may once need to go to the hospital and I have a phobia about hospitals.... people go there to die, but that's not important.. just a side note. They decided that we needed food assistance and yes we used it. In part, if we didn't we would lose it, and needing something and not having it is worse than having something and not needing it. I don't like the fact that I need help from anyone especially the state, and as far as the money being paid back, you don't know much about the assistance system, because the money DOESN"T have to be paid back it's there for people who need it and athough I see alot just taking advantage of the system, mothers having kids just to get money from the state, I am not one of them. My family needs the help and until there comes a time of universal healthcare or I get paid a wage that will allow me to afford an insurance package that covers my children with great coverage, I will NEED help from the state for insurance.
And even if I agreed that this was a LOAN as you put it, you tell me what kind of loan accrues 25% intrest quarterly. Mob-like is the word I like to use, and if it was to be paid back.... read my posts I believe I've satisfied my debt and then some.

If for one second I thought there was something ok about what was happening to me I wouldn't expect help or ask for it, I was raised by an excellent mother and father who taught me to know right from wrong and although I didn't always follow their teachings doesn't mean that their words fell on deaf ears. Don't question the reason I'm asking for help because I beleive my cause is just and to question me is to question fairness and justice, if you have your opinions about assistance programs, speak to your government, I just need help, not stone throwing.

 

[Zephyr]

the fact that your wife (then gf) and children were on state aid means that you weren't fully supporting them

there is nothing really that can be told to you to help you avoid this debt or it's interest, you will have to pay it

 

[jbowman]

Well Grif, you sure do go off on a tangent, dont you?

I was on assistance approximately 13 years ago for about 6 months. Right after my child was born--Guess what? Dad had to pay every penny of it back PLUS interest. So I do know what I am talking about.

Some of the things you say dont make sense:

No, at the time I could support my children and was doing well with what little support they were offering

So the state was giving you AID, therefore you COULD NOT support your children.

we never went to FIA and said "We need help, give us money pay our bills, pay for this and this and this......"

I have NEVER heard of the STATE coming and knocking on your door to ask if they could give you money and/or assistance i.e. food, medical, whatever. YOU HAVE TO APPLY.

Finally, no one is questioning the reason youre asking for help. They are answering you by telling you that YOU HAVE TO PAY THE STATE BACK. period. It is not an opinion. You have said yourself that everyone here is telling you exactly what the caseworker says... hmmm wonder why? Do you NOT FEEL that you should pay back what you borrowed?

 

[Griffzan]

the fact that your wife (then gf) and children were on state aid means that you weren't fully supporting them

That's the part I don't understand, I keep saying the support amount $206 stayed the same with me on or off the grant, if you want me to say we were poor and needed help, fine we were poor and needed help, the help didn't stop when I got on the grant so it was help that WE needed regardless. Now I'm on the grant (don't really want to be) and guess what, tax dollars are helping someone who doesn't want help. What I did by getting on the grant made no difference it just helps raise taxes. And on one other side note, the money I pay back doesn't go to FIA to be recycled, less then 5% of what I pay back does, if you want to know the truth the whole assistance program is one big whole that sucks your and mine both tax dollars, and for further info it's not much more in other states, Califonia is the most with a little over 11% going back into the program, it's a flawed system, but it's not my fault. Here I am choosing my battles and a fair one I believe and everyone goes back to the money owed and the state helped me, wrap your mind around this WE NEEDED THE HELP!!! The money doesn't get paid back by people that are on assistance at any time even if they became millionares (sp) The state took advantage of someone, in a hospital bed no less, using false pretenses and not giving all the info, and I don't know if someone expects me to call about a support order be told there isn't one and call back months later and say "Are you sure? Can you check again?" I went a little over two years thinking that I was ok and had nothing to worry about, because if I was made aware anytime from then to when I got hauled to jail and lost all the money I had saved up for a house, I would have done something sooner. When we lived with Jessica's parents I was saving up for a house not an apartment, I had $5,000 and some change in the bank and the state took it all, and the proceeded to take over half my checks from then on out (which left me with about $150 a week) and then told me if I wanted it to stop we had to get a house together (which was what I was trying to do in the first place). Now at that time we were, like I said, recieving $206 a month in food assistance. I still had to pay for diapers and Jessica, though she had worked in the past, was not at this time because the twins were almost due. $150 dollars goes pretty fast, with or without housing expenses. So yes, I stopped paying child support, there was no other way I could see to save up for a house. I don't know what type of life the people responding to this thread have or had but I couldn't just barrow money, pride and the fact that at the time not alot of people had any extra to spare really got in the way. I would save up almost just enough, or more than enough and be looking at getting an apt. and would be taken to jail and forced to pay all the money I saved up to get out, purge payment is what they called it (excellent name bacause it "purged" my bank account of all my funds and like I said before "more") and I would be back to sqaure one. Until finally I was able to barrow the money from friends, her parents, my parents, and even my real dad that I hadn't very much as he lived in Tx. And get a house together, it's after that that I was able to get on her grant, mean while all this money had added up money that if I paid I would never have the chance of stopping, the system works counter productive to the family they tell you get a house together and we'll make it stop but don't give enough money to get a house.

 

[jbowman]

Well your only solution at this point to get a personal loan at a lower interest rate and pay the state what you owe them. Next step is to cancel all AID for yourself, wife, and children so you wont go deeper in the hole. The state forces NO ONE to be on AID.

You have been told the legal truths, you have been given solutions. Anything else you post is just railing against the system to which no one here has any power. Be proactive. Take care of it.

The US is indeed the land of the free. But it is not the land of the free MONEY. I do not know where you ever got the idea that assistance does not need to be paid back.

I also dont understand how the state came to your wife on her hospital bed after giving birth and forced her to go on welfare. This is just completely bizarre.

 

[Griffzan]

Well Grif, you sure do go off on a tangent, dont you?

I was on assistance approximately 13 years ago for about 6 months. Right after my child was born--Guess what? Dad had to pay every penny of it back PLUS interest. So I do know what I am talking about.

Some of the things you say dont make sense:



So the state was giving you AID, therefore you COULD NOT support your children.


I have NEVER heard of the STATE coming and knocking on your door to ask if they could give you money and/or assistance i.e. food, medical, whatever. YOU HAVE TO APPLY.

Finally, no one is questioning the reason youre asking for help. They are answering you by telling you that YOU HAVE TO PAY THE STATE BACK. period. It is not an opinion. You have said yourself that everyone here is telling you exactly what the caseworker says... hmmm wonder why? Do you NOT FEEL that you should pay back what you borrowed?

Off tangent, yes I have A.D.D.

As far as paying it back, I don't know where you live but here in Mich, if your on the grant you don't have to pay it back, if you don't believe me your free to check. At the time I was saving up for a house and the food assistance hepled quite a bit but wasn't necessary, at the time it was therewhen we really needed it most until....

The form you fill out in Mich is a general application if you fill out for medical and they see you need cash or food assistance you get it, wheither (sp) you ask or not.

The last comment you made can be defended in more ways then one, but 1) I'm unaware that grants are to be paid back 2)The SUPPORT is what I'm paying back, I don't know why everyone thinks it's the medical I'm paying back or even if that what your meaning the money owed to FIA was forgiven when we got married, if you want an itemized list of what I'm paying back, it's easy the order states child support, when it was medical (FIA) and support it said FIA-Support, now it says support. 3) Do you NOT FEEL that you should pay back what you borrowed? Thats a silly question, I FEEL I'm being treated unjustly, strike that, I know I'm being treated unjustly. For an support order that should have never been carried out, no I don't think I should pay it back and like the thread states, I want the money I paid back.


And yes bizzare and true at the same time.

 

[Zephyr]

Now I'm on the grant (don't really want to be) and guess what, tax dollars are helping someone who doesn't want help.

are you aware that you can decline to receive assistance?

 

[Ohiogal]

OP. Have. A. Good. Day.

G'day Op. G'day.

 

[CMLANDLORD]

You keep stating you don't need the assistance. Why haven't you or your wife applied to have the aid revoked? Everything that has happened in the past is pretty much set in concrete.

Furthermore, I'll be on your side and believe you when you say you were given aid even though you didn't need it when your first child was born. Regardless, your new wife signed the application (coerced or willingly) and the ball just kept rolling. You owe the State $ and that is just the bottom line.

Take the advice JBOWMAN gave you and try and apply for a personal loan, which will offer an interest rate lower than 25%, and pay off what you owe to the state. Yes, the interest rate is "mob-like" but do something about it instead of whining about it. What makes the state different from Capital One where they charge you an APR of 21% for having a balance? Its quite standard IMO. Pay off your balance, get the aid/grant canceled and pay your personal loan off at a lower interest rate.

Best of luck to you and your family.

 

[Griffzan]

You keep stating you don't need the assistance. Why haven't you or your wife applied to have the aid revoked? Everything that has happened in the past is pretty much set in concrete.

Furthermore, I'll be on your side and believe you when you say you were given aid even though you didn't need it when your first child was born. Regardless, your new wife signed the application (coerced or willingly) and the ball just kept rolling. You owe the State $ and that is just the bottom line.

Take the advice JBOWMAN gave you and try and apply for a personal loan, which will offer an interest rate lower than 25%, and pay off what you owe to the state. Yes, the interest rate is "mob-like" but do something about it instead of whining about it. What makes the state different from Capital One where they charge you an APR of 21% for having a balance? Its quite standard IMO. Pay off your balance, get the aid/grant canceled and pay your personal loan off at a lower interest rate.
Best of luck to you and your family.

Thank you for your post, and your best wishes, I actually have applied for a personal loan and was denied, it seems that support arrears applies to your credit. As for assistance, I didn't know that I could refuse, when we first tried to just get me on the grant I told the caseworker and his partner that I didn't want it and wasn't told that I could refuse, I'm not saying your lying just that I wasn't told. Also we do need the medical assistance portion and as of now that's all we recieve, it seems I worked myself into the state agreeing with me. And though I don't agree with the fact the order was put into effect I will say that if anything should have been paid back it's the two years that the order was charging that I was unaware of. Once I made it known to the court that we were living together and I was trying to support my children then in the intrest of the family (because that's what their supposed to be for) they should have suspended the case until I was able to get a home for my family and get on the grant (In a timely fashion of course). What they did was stand in the way of a family being a family.

 

[Silverplum]

What they did was stand in the way of a family being a family.

Okay. You're right. The government is evil and they ruined everything by providing medical care and food and probably housing assistance, and Lord knows what else. How on earth could the government expect you to be a family with their help?

When you/your family signed up for and received help, that was the government's fault also.

You're right.
You're right.
You're right.
You're right.

Okay? Enough? I can type it some more, if you'd like.

 

[Zephyr]

what was the monthly child support amount you were ordered to pay? and have you ever either prior to or after the marriage petitioned the court for a downward modification or to have child support stopped?