504 Violation

[notsmartmark]

Sisymay,

Prior Written Notice is different for IDEA and Section 504

Prior Written Notice is required under IDEA, Prior Notice is required under Section 504. The school fulfilled its notice requirements according to 504 rules.

 

[rtbrain]

Mommyto 2
Yes, it states work on social skills. As you know 504 plans are written specifically to the child’s needs, so it does not surprise me that you have never seen it on a 504. He was being rude to teachers, being the class clown, talking out of turn and things to that affect. He’s very social and has lots of friends. Maybe it should have stated socially acceptable skills. Whatever the case maybe, he did not receive the services; therefore we will never know if it would have made a difference. That was one of the services. It also had things like tap on shoulder to refocus, positive reinforcement when he followed rules, extra set of books at home, sit close to teacher, etc. Keep in mind that this was in middle school where they actually gave him the services. The high school didn’t make any changes as he got older because they did not even acknowledge his 504. There have been no problems in high school up to this point. There was no reason for me to ask if they were utilizing his 504. He was doing well. I believe not being contacted by the school about problems is a positive thing. There was no need for me to change anything when it was going fine.

Sismay
Thanks for giving info. Because of some post by others, I would like to say my son mooned someone. He was wrong. It was very disrespectful and rude. In no way was there any sexual intent, as it may sound because of what someone else wrote in their post.

Notsmartmark
Thanks. Post #35 is very informative. I don’t mind admitting that I don’t know a whole lot about the rules of the 504. I have been looking into it and have read that in cases where schools knew of disabilities or records of disabilities that an actual plan does not need to be in place. The child is considered disabled and is protected. I could very well be interpreting what I’ve read wrong. It can be very confusing for me but it sounds to me like you are experienced in this.

I met with the teachers and guidance yesterday. We will have to meet again after his doctor appointment and classroom observation. The school just started a new semester so all his teachers besides one is new; that make it somewhat difficult to get any history. I have requested to have last semesters teachers either attend the next meeting or give comments.

I don’t know that if what the counselor did would be considered an appropriate evaluation. She spoke to my son and looked through his records from what she told me. Teachers were not involved. There was nothing for her to check in his 504 file because there was no activity since middle school. I did find out how he slipped through the cracks. Each grade level has a counselor. At the beginning of the year they are given a list with the kid’s names that have a plan. They are responsible for holding a meeting to discuss the plan. In my son’s case, the freshman counselor did not do anything but his name did get passed on to the sophomore counselor. She contacted him half way through the school year for the first time and that’s when she called me. I don’t know why it took so long for her to contact him. If they do it alphabetically our last name begins with B so it should have been sooner. She did not put him on the list for the next year because of our phone conversation so the junior counselor was not aware until this incident happened. I’ve learned through all of this that some changes in the school are needed. To have to change counselors each year does not make sense. If kids have special needs it makes it really easy to fall through the cracks and not get needed services. The school has 4 vice principles and the kids are assigned to them alphabetically, A-E has 1, F-J assigned to another and so on. It only makes sense to do the same with guidance and the counselors have asked for that but the school won’t do it.

I don’t know if it is just the area where I live or not, but the schools here do not offer info about 504 to parents. I can’t go back and change the past but I feel when the school contacted me when my son was in kindergarten and wanted him medicated they should have informed me about the 504. It should be a requirement that the school give parents the information in order to help a child succeed. I have read a lot of sad stories while researching this. Thank you for the info you have given and thank you so much for staying on the subject.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Mommyto 2
Yes, it states work on social skills. As you know 504 plans are written specifically to the child’s needs, so it does not surprise me that you have never seen it on a 504. He was being rude to teachers, being the class clown, talking out of turn and things to that affect. He’s very social and has lots of friends. Maybe it should have stated socially acceptable skills. Whatever the case maybe, he did not receive the services; therefore we will never know if it would have made a difference. That was one of the services. It also had things like tap on shoulder to refocus, positive reinforcement when he followed rules, extra set of books at home, sit close to teacher, etc. Keep in mind that this was in middle school where they actually gave him the services. The high school didn’t make any changes as he got older because they did not even acknowledge his 504. There have been no problems in high school up to this point. There was no reason for me to ask if they were utilizing his 504. He was doing well. I believe not being contacted by the school about problems is a positive thing. There was no need for me to change anything when it was going fine.

Excuse me, When did you contact the school re getting a second set of books for home as per the 504 plan? Getting copies of the current plan/file. Did your son ask to or choose a seat near the teacher? Did you discuss your shilds 504 plan with his teachers during Open house and back to school nights or other opportunities during the 2.5 years, perhaps following a band performance? Being the class clown, talking out of turn, show he lacks social awareness, needs attention, cannot interpretert environmental clues, all signs of something besides ADHD, a lack of appropriateness rather than being "social".

Sismay
Thanks for giving info. Because of some post by others, I would like to say my son mooned someone. He was wrong. It was very disrespectful and rude. In no way was there any sexual intent, as it may sound because of what someone else wrote in their post.

Now you ignore me because you don't like what you read or is it because you do not see how it applies to your situation because it is outside of your concrete set of ideas? Exhibitionism is a sexual act I'll not be surprised if there are not other excessive and inappropriate "acts" which he innocently refers to as "adjustments" that take place for which he has not yet been challenged on, but will as he becomes an adult.

Notsmartmark
Thanks. Post #35 is very informative. I don’t mind admitting that I don’t know a whole lot about the rules of the 504. I have been looking into it and have read that in cases where schools knew of disabilities or records of disabilities that an actual plan does not need to be in place. The child is considered disabled and is protected. I could very well be interpreting what I’ve read wrong. It can be very confusing for me but it sounds to me like you are experienced in this.

Did you happen to notice I printed the rules for 504 plans out for you? There is a difference between 504 (access) plans and IEP's (IDEA) after 10 years you should be well aquainted with this whole process, but it sounds as if you have been in denial this entire time and that you feel as if the whole issue is a personal attack on you rather than getting the help your son needs, this is more complex than denile. I printed details of the plans to clarify, they specifically exclude this behavior as an exception covered by the plan for ADHD and that the school is required to apply the same rules as the general population for ECA's, because you have failed to seek any other services or further evaluation.

I met with the teachers and guidance yesterday. We will have to meet again after his doctor appointment and classroom observation. The school just started a new semester so all his teachers besides one is new; that make it somewhat difficult to get any history. I have requested to have last semesters teachers either attend the next meeting or give comments.

Why haven't you done this sooner? Of course you called his doctors as soon as his first offense to get on top of this matter, you didn't wait until this week to advise the doctor of your son's inappropriate behaviors and legal problems? You did have some written input from the doctor at these meetings didn't you?

I don’t know that if what the counselor did would be considered an appropriate evaluation. She spoke to my son and looked through his records from what she told me.

If you read what I posted for you, you would have noticed for 504 plans, that can vary from case to case and what you mention is sufficient, so, that claim is not oging to work and a 504 evaluation as opposed to an IEP need only be done every 3 years. It was up to you and your son to advise the school of any unmet or additional accommodations such as the extra set of books, scoial skills training, transportation on the Short bus where his inappropriate behavior would have been more closely monitored.

Teachers were not involved. There was nothing for her to check in his 504 file because there was no activity since middle school. I did find out how he slipped through the cracks.

The evaluation was adequate and you and your son wanted the 504 plan discontinued. You failed to follow through on your part of the agreement however you may still be held accountable under the legal theory of estoppel as if you had signed the agreement and only notice is required.

Each grade level has a counselor. At the beginning of the year they are given a list with the kid’s names that have a plan. They are responsible for holding a meeting to discuss the plan. In my son’s case, the freshman counselor did not do anything but his name did get passed on to the sophomore counselor.

There was no need for her to do anything at this point since it was not 3 years, you/your son were not requesitng accommodations or notifying the school of their lack.

She contacted him half way through the school year for the first time and that’s when she called me. I don’t know why it took so long for her to contact him. If they do it alphabetically our last name begins with B so it should have been sooner.

She did nothing wrong, it was time to review and she reviewed the 504 plan in due course. If you and your son had been actively involved in the process you would not have let it slip by, when you agreed to drop the 504 plan you didn't even bother to provide a signature as you promised even though it isn't required, you later admitted in public that while you had not "asked" to have the 504 plan dropped, after a review, you/yours son speeking with the counselor, you "agreed" to drop the plan. Your insistance on using the discontinued plan as an excuse for your son's behavior, is not going to fly, first of all because the plan wasn't in effect and second because the plan doesn't cover this issue as caused by ADHD.

She did not put him on the list for the next year because of our phone conversation so the junior counselor was not aware until this incident happened.

Earth to rtbrain, Earth to rtbrain,
THE 504 PLAN WAS DISCONTINUED AT YOUR REQUEST/AGREEMENT there was nothing to pass on the the next level counselor.

I’ve learned through all of this that some changes in the school are needed. To have to change counselors each year does not make sense. If kids have special needs it makes it really easy to fall through the cracks and not get needed services. The school has 4 vice principles and the kids are assigned to them alphabetically, A-E has 1, F-J assigned to another and so on. It only makes sense to do the same with guidance and the counselors have asked for that but the school won’t do it.

Again, your perception is off and you are not understanding how the plan works. You are not even admitting your son has serious problems. Are you also in counseling?

I don’t know if it is just the area where I live or not, but the schools here do not offer info about 504 to parents. I can’t go back and change the past but I feel when the school contacted me when my son was in kindergarten and wanted him medicated they should have informed me about the 504. It should be a requirement that the school give parents the information in order to help a child succeed. I have read a lot of sad stories while researching this. Thank you for the info you have given and thank you so much for staying on the subject.

What school district ? Have you contacted them for the school districts policy?

PLEASE, PRINT OUT THIS AND THE OTHER THREAD AND SEND THEM AHEAD OF TIME SO THE THERAPIST CAN READ THIS ALL BEFORE YOUR SON'S APPOINTMENT, ALSO INCLUDE THE OTHER DOCUMENTS AND RECORDS.

DON'T FORGET TO ASK ABOUT AN EVALUATION FOR ASPERGER'S.

 

[rtbrain]

Met4nzkx
I’m sorry you are so upset. I probably won’t be able to address everything you wrote because I have a full time job and a family. I’ll try to touch on some of them. First let me say that you are making way too much of all of this. I wish you would not let it bother you so much.

1. Please read the post referring to the books- extra set of books at home, sit close to teacher, etc. Keep in mind that this was in middle school where they actually gave him the services . There is really not enough privacy at the open houses to get into those issues, you would need a private meeting. Also there was a huge improvement when he started HS. You know, now that he is in HS he keeps all his books in his book bag and brings them home everyday and boy is it heavy! He does not have time to go to the locker. My hope is to see my son not need the 504. Maybe it’s possible that the 504 in MS helped him to progress. I believe that’s the purpose of it. You are right, his behavior is not always appropriate. After all he is a teenage boy, not a perfect young man. He loves attention, he’ll never get enough of it, no matter how much he gets. I believe that’s one of the reasons he loves to perform. He is very self assured, never experiences nervousness before performing, even his solos.
2. You are right; I don’t like what you wrote. Your quote below has absolutely nothing to do with mooning. You were out of line, at least in my opinion.
Exceptions to “Physical or Mental Impairment.” Homosexuality and bisexuality are not considered impairments under §504. 1992 OCR Memorandum on Differences Between ADA Title II and §504 Regulations (OCR 1992). Transvestitism was excluded under §504 by the Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988. The following are not disabilities under ADA, and may or may not be disabilities under §504 (1)...pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, gender identity disorder not resulting from physical impairments, or other sexual behavior disorders; (2) compulsive gambling, (3) kleptomania, (4) pyromania. Americans With Disabilities Act, 42 U.S.C. §12211.
3. You are right again. It was just too long and my time was too short. I know there are differences and I do sometimes get confused. I’m not an expert on any of that stuff.. I have not had 10 years experience. My son started the 504 in the 6th grade but he has been on medicine for 10 years. Let me also mention, when the elementary school wanted him to be put on medicine, they forgot to tell me about 504 plans. It seems to be a secret in the schools around here and they keep it very hush hush. The way parents learn about 504 where I’m from is from other parents who have already “been there”. Matter of fact, I just shared the secret with another mother whose child is having trouble learning and has already been held back. Different school district, same secret. You would think they would want to help the kids.
4. Yes I contacted his doctor who gave him a very nice reference letter. He is also the one who told us about the mooning story in MD. The superior court judge overturned the decision of a lower court, to rule in favor of a man that mooned his neighbor and her 8 year old daughter witnessed it. Mooning is not illegal in MD. The doctor, he has the upcoming appointment with, is a pediatrician and ADHD specialist. She wrote the article I posted. She actually worked with my sons pediatrician, who is retired now, when she first started practicing. That was years ago so she may not remember him. Then again she might because he was always so full of life and personable even as a toddler, people tend to remember him. He really is a cute kid.
5. You are probably right. I don’t think I ever argued with anyone about how it works and if I did I’m sure you will point it out. My son does not belong on the “short bus”. But then again, according to you, I am in denial. You are entitled to your opinion. Did I say my son was or was not a perfect young man?
6. Oops! You are wrong. My son felt he did not need it, she agreed with my son. She called me to tell me about the talk she had with my son. We were actually not the committee who was supposed to make that decision. The guidance counselor and I were both wrong for not including the committee that makes the decision.
7. I’ll have to make the school aware of that one. They are the ones who told me the way the procedure is supposed to work. They actually said the school was responsible for meeting with freshman, who are coming from one school and entering HS as a brand new student.
8. You are right again. At least she contacted him at some point during the year. The freshman counselor apparently did not have time to meet with new students who had 504 plans. They should think about getting her an assistant, wouldn’t you agree?
9. You are right again. The junior counselor is great and seems to be dedicated to her job. Maybe the freshman counselor should be her assistant so she can learn from her. You didn’t state earlier that the freshman counselor did nothing wrong, did you? Because she screwed up really bad. Maybe she is in denial about having a list with kids on 504 plans.
10. I hate to disagree, but, I was never provided with a paper to sign. Did it slip my mind? Yes. Did it slip the counselors mind? Obviously. I am only human, as is she. Impulsiveness is one if the main characteristics of ADHD. My sons act was impulsive. If you disagree, too bad.
11. Who’s that calling my name? Is it you god?
12. I got kicked out of counseling. And you?
13. Now really, do you think I’m going to tell you the school district? He has an appointment with a medical doctor, not a therapist. Don’t you worry, I will ask about aspergers.
By the way, are you a therapist?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Let us know how your son's appointment goes today.

 

[sisymay]

To Rtbrain: I wanted to reply to your comment about schools making 504 hush hush.
This is so true. Everything having to do with special ed and 504 is a secret. The laws are not written that the school 'has' to tell the parents about these services. And that's just crazy. How else are we going to know? They keep it hush hush cause they don't want to spend the money that they ARE given in state and federal funds.
But I have noticed that the schools 'intervention team process' is not hush hush LOL When a parent even mentions their child has problems or wants to do testing, the school throws up this intervention team mess to get the parent off track, hoping they don't find out that there IS 504 and special ed programs.
The schools even go as far as to trick the parents into thinking the 'intervention team' process IS the real special ed process. They did this to me TWICE before I knew there were IDEA laws. Schools are doing this to parents all over the country. They make the parents think this is the only help they will offer, so they won't look further and find out that 504 and special ed is available.
This has been my soap box for quite some time now and I have been trying to find a way to get the word out. I was even kicked off of one message board for informing parents of this. And this was a message board FOR parents going thru this !!
OH, and even when parents DO find out about 504 and special ed, the schools will lie, cheat, steal, whatever to make sure things don't get done right. I've been having to throw state complaints at them left and right LOL...

 

[AngelMyst]

I don't have much to add, but wanted offer a bit of moral support. Hang in there and good luck.

I know what it's like to fight the school system, and it's a tough road to hoe. I also think some aspects of the No Child Left Behind act are actually making things more difficult in some cases and that contributes. The school are focusing so intently on keeping the numbers up on the testing, that actually teaching the children is becoming more like an assembly line than learning environment.

My daughter is severely ADHD, but was not diagnosed until 6th grade when she finally broke under the pressure and ended up hospitalized for 2 weeks for depression. My daughter has never exhibited the disruptive, active behavioral problems people normally associate with ADHD so it wasn't as recognizable. Our biggest issue was homework, she would come home from school, then spend the entire night working on homework..straight up until bedtime only to forget to turn it in, lowering her grade. My daughter is a very intelligent girl, on testing she's well above normal or average, but so much of the schools grading is based on homework she literally was a failing student. In my discussions with the school over this they took the stand that she just wasn't trying.

At first I was at least able to get her to turn the homework in late when she forgot, and at least she would get some grade for it, but one very cruel teacher destroyed that for me before she got through 6th grade. She was so intimidated by him that she had trouble even speaking to him without desolving into tears..so I told her to just set it on his desk when she went into the room, that way he would at least have the homework and she wouldn't have to actually speak one on one to him. His response to this was to yell at her in front of the entire class about it, telling her he didn't own the desk, she couldn't expect him to see it if she didn't put in directly into his hands, and he never wanted to see that behavior again. I mention this because this incident, has never left her to this day and created even more problems later.

Throughout Junior High, I was at the school so much I might as well have gone back myself. And each year we struggled with the same issues, and by the end of the year she would be failing so badly that they would put her on a point system and tally up the number of homework items she turned in, rather than actually grade her and pass her on that. A side note here, some of the homework she was struggling so hard on, was never even graded to verify the student understood, which made no sense to me, they didn't look at what was done, they just looked to see that something was done! Anyway..once she got into highschool things became even more difficult. I wasn't allowed to actually go into the school as much to turn things in as I did in Junior High, so even less got turned in. Which is when that incident in 6th grade reared it's ugly head.

My daughter as I said before has never been a behavioral problem in anyway other than forgetting her homework. But all of a sudden I found she was skipping classes. Not school...just 2 specific classes...which resulted in numerous detentions. They didn't inform me right away, and she hadn't mentioned anything about it so by the time we found what was going on, one of the classes was a lost cause and she was dropped from it. Afraid to turn her homework in late, fearing reprisal in front of the entire class by the teacher she just wouldn't turn it in, after awhile she started getting scared that they would yell at her for that...and started hiding in the lunchroom during those classes. I was able to get her through that year, but this problem returned again at the start of school this year and she was reaching a point where they were going to have to report this to the truant officer, which considering what her problem was....would have been very destructive. She already was feeling scared and intimidated she didn't need even more fear.

And then....5 years after I started this fight...a new teacher acting as her student advocate actually listened, and really payed attention and suggested an ombudsman school. It's considered an alternative school, mainly troublesome students which sounds bad, but it's practically a miracle for us. There is no homework, the work is done on a computer and the teachers are there to offer assistance, but the computer also grades the work. This eliminated our 2 primary issues..no intimidation and no forgetting homework. My daughter still attends her highschool along with this, so that she is able to take some of the elective courses. This was done because one of them is directly related to what she would like to persue as a career after leaving school. This class also has no homework, and now finally after struggling with the school for 5 years, my daughter is finally succeeding and her true potential is showing.

I hope you don't mind that I gave so much detail on your post about what I have dealt with, I wanted you to know that I truely understand the struggle, and also let you know where we finally found resolution in case it might help you if worse comes to worse. After struggling 5 years I know I wish someone had brought it up to me earlier

Good luck!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I don't have much to add, but wanted offer a bit of moral support. Hang in there and good luck.

I know what it's like to fight the school system, and it's a tough road to hoe. I also think some aspects of the No Child Left Behind act are actually making things more difficult in some cases and that contributes. The school are focusing so intently on keeping the numbers up on the testing, that actually teaching the children is becoming more like an assembly line than learning environment.

My daughter is severely ADHD, but was not diagnosed until 6th grade when she finally broke under the pressure and ended up hospitalized for 2 weeks for depression. My daughter has never exhibited the disruptive, active behavioral problems people normally associate with ADHD so it wasn't as recognizable. Our biggest issue was homework, she would come home from school, then spend the entire night working on homework..straight up until bedtime only to forget to turn it in, lowering her grade. My daughter is a very intelligent girl, on testing she's well above normal or average, but so much of the schools grading is based on homework she literally was a failing student. In my discussions with the school over this they took the stand that she just wasn't trying.

At first I was at least able to get her to turn the homework in late when she forgot, and at least she would get some grade for it, but one very cruel teacher destroyed that for me before she got through 6th grade. She was so intimidated by him that she had trouble even speaking to him without desolving into tears..so I told her to just set it on his desk when she went into the room, that way he would at least have the homework and she wouldn't have to actually speak one on one to him. His response to this was to yell at her in front of the entire class about it, telling her he didn't own the desk, she couldn't expect him to see it if she didn't put in directly into his hands, and he never wanted to see that behavior again. I mention this because this incident, has never left her to this day and created even more problems later.

Throughout Junior High, I was at the school so much I might as well have gone back myself. And each year we struggled with the same issues, and by the end of the year she would be failing so badly that they would put her on a point system and tally up the number of homework items she turned in, rather than actually grade her and pass her on that. A side note here, some of the homework she was struggling so hard on, was never even graded to verify the student understood, which made no sense to me, they didn't look at what was done, they just looked to see that something was done! Anyway..once she got into highschool things became even more difficult. I wasn't allowed to actually go into the school as much to turn things in as I did in Junior High, so even less got turned in. Which is when that incident in 6th grade reared it's ugly head.

My daughter as I said before has never been a behavioral problem in anyway other than forgetting her homework. But all of a sudden I found she was skipping classes. Not school...just 2 specific classes...which resulted in numerous detentions. They didn't inform me right away, and she hadn't mentioned anything about it so by the time we found what was going on, one of the classes was a lost cause and she was dropped from it. Afraid to turn her homework in late, fearing reprisal in front of the entire class by the teacher she just wouldn't turn it in, after awhile she started getting scared that they would yell at her for that...and started hiding in the lunchroom during those classes. I was able to get her through that year, but this problem returned again at the start of school this year and she was reaching a point where they were going to have to report this to the truant officer, which considering what her problem was....would have been very destructive. She already was feeling scared and intimidated she didn't need even more fear.

And then....5 years after I started this fight...a new teacher acting as her student advocate actually listened, and really payed attention and suggested an ombudsman school. It's considered an alternative school, mainly troublesome students which sounds bad, but it's practically a miracle for us. There is no homework, the work is done on a computer and the teachers are there to offer assistance, but the computer also grades the work. This eliminated our 2 primary issues..no intimidation and no forgetting homework. My daughter still attends her highschool along with this, so that she is able to take some of the elective courses. This was done because one of them is directly related to what she would like to persue as a career after leaving school. This class also has no homework, and now finally after struggling with the school for 5 years, my daughter is finally succeeding and her true potential is showing.

I hope you don't mind that I gave so much detail on your post about what I have dealt with, I wanted you to know that I truely understand the struggle, and also let you know where we finally found resolution in case it might help you if worse comes to worse. After struggling 5 years I know I wish someone had brought it up to me earlier

Good luck!

While your post is encouraging, and alternative schools a real blessing for some children with certain problems. In this case, since alternative schools focus on children with behavioral issues for the most part, her son's learning style may not be a good fit for her son where he might pick up bad behavior from others. OP's problem is not lack of access to programs, it is denying the fact that her son has a serious problem and it is not the school's fault for his behavioral problems. They have to take responsibility for his actions and quit blaming the school because her child exhibits inappropriate social behavior. Having a 504 plan does not erase all responsibility.

 

[AngelMyst]

While your post is encouraging, and alternative schools a real blessing for some children with certain problems. In this case, since alternative schools focus on children with behavioral issues for the most part, her son's learning style may not be a good fit for her son where he might pick up bad behavior from others. OP's problem is not lack of access to programs, it is denying the fact that her son has a serious problem and it is not the school's fault for his behavioral problems. They have to take responsibility for his actions and quit blaming the school because her child exhibits inappropriate social behavior. Having a 504 plan does not erase all responsibility.

I agree about taking responsibility very much so. So far as the behavioral issues, actually this school seems to mainly be students who are on their last legs in the system due to inappropriate behavior, which scared me a bit at first because that has never been an issue with my daughter and I was concerned about her comfort levels in the environment. But in an effort to eliminate the possibility that these students will just pick up more problems from each other there is no real socialization there. They attend for 3 hours with no breaks, they spend that entire time working under the supervision of 2teachers and there are only 10 students per 3 hour session. But as you stated, it's crucial to take responsibility, examine the problems and work with your child to resolve them.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I agree about taking responsibility very much so. So far as the behavioral issues, actually this school seems to mainly be students who are on their last legs in the system due to inappropriate behavior, which scared me a bit at first because that has never been an issue with my daughter and I was concerned about her comfort levels in the environment. But in an effort to eliminate the possibility that these students will just pick up more problems from each other there is no real socialization there. They attend for 3 hours with no breaks, they spend that entire time working under the supervision of 2teachers and there are only 10 students per 3 hour session. But as you stated, it's crucial to take responsibility, examine the problems and work with your child to resolve them.

Your daughter didn't have the behavioral issues, she needed the structure which she got. My son had been ill for a while and got behind in his work, so he was put in such a program in the same school, they had a program in a separate HS as well, for a semester so he could make up his work, it worked well, he could have gotten ahead if he applied himself, lol, but at least he got caught up and also didn't have the class thnking he was playing games when he fainted from low bp. SO it can be very good, but because most of the children have behavioral problems OP's son required attention on his behavioral issues, not a place to learn new bad behaviors.

 

[AngelMyst]

Your daughter didn't have the behavioral issues, she needed the structure which she got. My son had been ill for a while and got behind in his work, so he was put in such a program in the same school, they had a program in a separate HS as well, for a semester so he could make up his work, it worked well, he could have gotten ahead if he applied himself, lol, but at least he got caught up and also didn't have the class thnking he was playing games when he fainted from low bp. SO it can be very good, but because most of the children have behavioral problems OP's son required attention on his behavioral issues, not a place to learn new bad behaviors.

I can't believe I totally misunderstood what you were saying before, just a momentary bit of brain lag there. I do understand and your right, the last thing he needs is an element that just encourages it more.

Nice that your school had it in house, my daughter starts her day at the highschool for 2 electives, then is bused to the alternative school for 3 hours, then bused home. I worry about socialization for her, with the alternative school so am happy about the electives but it would be nicer if it was in the same school here.

Regarding his fainting....the girls might have come running to rescue him! My daughter as actually fainted in school 3 times this past year, she is mildly hypoglycemic and a teenager who thinks she can get by without breakfast, some mornings are fine but then there are times that it's just not going to happen.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I can't believe I totally misunderstood what you were saying before, just a momentary bit of brain lag there. I do understand and your right, the last thing he needs is an element that just encourages it more.

Nice that your school had it in house, my daughter starts her day at the highschool for 2 electives, then is bused to the alternative school for 3 hours, then bused home. I worry about socialization for her, with the alternative school so am happy about the electives but it would be nicer if it was in the same school here.

Regarding his fainting....the girls might have come running to rescue him! My daughter as actually fainted in school 3 times this past year, she is mildly hypoglycemic and a teenager who thinks she can get by without breakfast, some mornings are fine but then there are times that it's just not going to happen.

In our family we have a thing called dysautonomia it causes low BP, they originally thought he was faking it (syncope). He was a charmer and always had the girls all over him, lol, he even attracted older girls with cars and mothers who would do his homework for him. You might have your daughter checked for "orthostatic hypotension" that is a sign of dysantonomia, the fainting may be caused by low blood sugar and or low bp. She should have protein for breakfast that helps maintain level blood sugar as opposed to carbs. Nuts like walnuts or almonds make great snacks even covered in chocolate.

 

[AngelMyst]

In our family we have a thing called dysautonomia it causes low BP, they originally thought he was faking it (syncope). He was a charmer and always had the girls all over him, lol, he even attracted older girls with cars and mothers who would do his homework for him. You might have your daughter checked for "orthostatic hypotension" that is a sign of dysantonomia, the fainting may be caused by low blood sugar and or low bp. She should have protein for breakfast that helps maintain level blood sugar as opposed to carbs. Nuts like walnuts or almonds make great snacks even covered in chocolate.

Wow, even mothers! Must be a charmer...look out for the broken hearts Actually I remember when my daughter was little that was one part of growing up I was going to hate..the broken hearts. So far I've mainly been spared that, one of her best friends in school asked her to be his girlfriend when they were 13, and now...they will celebrate 3 years together on valentines day. I'm still wondering how that happened.

Thank you so much for the information regarding dysantonomia, I will talk to the doctor about checking her on our next appointment. I did a quick search for information on it and was shocked, she frequently experiences a number of the symptoms associated with it so I am definately going to speak with the doctor. I do try to make sure she has at least some protien at breakfast, usually peanut butter or cheese unfortunately there are times she just feels she can't eat in the morning without getting sick. Which again makes me wonder about this, looking what you told me up, even her frequent stomach problems are symtoms that can be associated with it. Thank you again so much!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Wow, even mothers! Must be a charmer...look out for the broken hearts Actually I remember when my daughter was little that was one part of growing up I was going to hate..the broken hearts. So far I've mainly been spared that, one of her best friends in school asked her to be his girlfriend when they were 13, and now...they will celebrate 3 years together on valentines day. I'm still wondering how that happened.

Thank you so much for the information regarding dysantonomia, I will talk to the doctor about checking her on our next appointment. I did a quick search for information on it and was shocked, she frequently experiences a number of the symptoms associated with it so I am definately going to speak with the doctor. I do try to make sure she has at least some protien at breakfast, usually peanut butter or cheese unfortunately there are times she just feels she can't eat in the morning without getting sick. Which again makes me wonder about this, looking what you told me up, even her frequent stomach problems are symtoms that can be associated with it. Thank you again so much!

You are welcome, also check out this site, http://www.ndrf.org
also this article http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2860.htm

 

[AngelMyst]

You are welcome, also check out this site, http://www.ndrf.org
also this article http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2860.htm

Thanks again, the first one is actually the first hit I went to, and have been looking through that since with a bit of an omg mouth hanging open stunned look on my face, will check the second now.