Christmas Visitation Issues - already :-(

[BalloonGirl]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NH
Hi everyone,
I'm back again...

I have primary physical custody. We have joint legal custody.

I know it's helpful to provide the exact verbage of the decree, so here goes:
"Dad is awarded reasonable and liberal visitation rights with the parties' minor children, as the parties may mutually agree. The parties shall work out a flexible visitation schedule, taking into consideration their respective work schedules, and the minor children's needs, schedules and activities. Unless the parties otherwise agree, the default visitation schedule shall be as follows:

a: Dad shall have visitation with the parties' minor children every other weekend from Friday at 5 PM until Sunday at 5 PM. If Dad's weekend visitation is on three day holiday, such as Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc, Dad's weekend visitation shall be extended by one day to allow him visitation for the full holiday, from 5 PM the first day through 5 pm the last day."

(Not exact verbage, just throwing it in
b: weeknight visitation
c: split transportation
d: Christmas vacation is split (not an issue here - he's declining his Christmas vacation time))

e: Starting in 2003, the parties will alternate each year the half day between Christmas eve and Christmas day, with the parties' minor children spending Christmas eve from 4 pm until 12 noon on Christmas day with dad in odd calendar years, and with Mom on even calendar years; with Dad having the parties' minor children in even calendar years from 12 noon on Christmas day until 8 am the following morning."

So... guess what? 12/ 26 - 12/27 is his visitation weekend. And it's an odd year. He has stated that he will have the children from 4 PM Christmas eve, bring them to me at noon on Christmas Day, and I have to deliver the kiddos back at 5 PM Christmas Day, since it's his visitation weekend.

There is no provision for me having them until 8 AM the next day if Christmas falls on his visitation weekend.

So, does that mean I only have the kiddos from noon until 5 if he won't agree

Help...

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NH
Hi everyone,
I'm back again...

I have primary physical custody. We have joint legal custody.

I know it's helpful to provide the exact verbage of the decree, so here goes:
"Dad is awarded reasonable and liberal visitation rights with the parties' minor children, as the parties may mutually agree. The parties shall work out a flexible visitation schedule, taking into consideration their respective work schedules, and the minor children's needs, schedules and activities. Unless the parties otherwise agree, the default visitation schedule shall be as follows:

a: Dad shall have visitation with the parties' minor children every other weekend from Friday at 5 PM until Sunday at 5 PM. If Dad's weekend visitation is on three day holiday, such as Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc, Dad's weekend visitation shall be extended by one day to allow him visitation for the full holiday, from 5 PM the first day through 5 pm the last day."

(Not exact verbage, just throwing it in
b: weeknight visitation
c: split transportation
d: Christmas vacation is split (not an issue here - he's declining his Christmas vacation time))

e: Starting in 2003, the parties will alternate each year the half day between Christmas eve and Christmas day, with the parties' minor children spending Christmas eve from 4 pm until 12 noon on Christmas day with dad in odd calendar years, and with Mom on even calendar years; with Dad having the parties' minor children in even calendar years from 12 noon on Christmas day until 8 am the following morning."

So... guess what? 12/ 26 - 12/27 is his visitation weekend. And it's an odd year. He has stated that he will have the children from 4 PM Christmas eve, bring them to me at noon on Christmas Day, and I have to deliver the kiddos back at 5 PM Christmas Day, since it's his visitation weekend.

There is no provision for me having them until 8 AM the next day if Christmas falls on his visitation weekend.

So, does that mean I only have the kiddos from noon until 5 if he won't agree

Help...

Looks like it. This year.

I don't see the problem.

 

[BalloonGirl]

I guess I was hoping to spend more than 4 1/4 hours with my children on Christmas.

Wouldn't you?

 

[Silverplum]

I guess I was hoping to spend more than 4 1/4 hours with my children on Christmas.

Wouldn't you?

It's the agreement you signed. It's standard for split families to split holidays. Nobody gets 100% of anything. That's how it is. Wishing it were otherwise is a waste of your time and energy.

My personal wishes are not governed by court orders. But I'm not asking legal questions here, am I?

 

[Proserpina]

I guess I was hoping to spend more than 4 1/4 hours with my children on Christmas.

Wouldn't you?

That wasn't the point...

It's unfortunate, but that's the way the order has been written.

 

[pittrocks]

Agree with the others...

Each party "misses out" a little, it's give and take.

My orders state "noon Christmas Eve through noon Christmas Day alternating every other year".

Sometimes I don't have the kids for the big Christmas day dinner.
No problem, then we do something with the family on Christmas Eve instead,
or we just suck it up and wait till the next year.


Truthfully, just enjoy your time that you have.
Do you have extra time on New Year's?

 

[profmum]

Agree with the others...

Each party "misses out" a little, it's give and take.

My orders state "noon Christmas Eve through noon Christmas Day alternating every other year".

Sometimes I don't have the kids for the big Christmas day dinner.
No problem, then we do something with the family on Christmas Eve instead,
or we just suck it up and wait till the next year.

Agreed and cosigned!

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

Agreed and cosigned!

+1 . Hey, lookie there. We agree on sumptin ...

 

[stealth2]

We each "get" Christmas Eve/Day alternating years. One year, he gets from end of school 'til 12/26, the next year I do (and the other parent gets through 1/1). However, most years, he's declined Christmas Eve/Day in favor of having them for the rest of their break. Eh, my gain. So this year, when he decided he wanted them for the duration - Christmas Eve/Day/break... I figured it wasn't that big a deal. Would I like them to be home for part of that time? Sure. But ya know? It isn't about me - it's about them and what will be best for them. So yeah... I see them off on the 24th, and see them home on the 2nd. It's not a tragedy.

 

[Zephyr]

I'm going to disagree. Holiday time is generally understood to supersede regular visitation time. If you do a search for "holiday time" in the family law section on this site you will find countless posts stating the same.

 

[BalloonGirl]

We each "get" Christmas Eve/Day alternating years. One year, he gets from end of school 'til 12/26, the next year I do (and the other parent gets through 1/1). However, most years, he's declined Christmas Eve/Day in favor of having them for the rest of their break. Eh, my gain. So this year, when he decided he wanted them for the duration - Christmas Eve/Day/break... I figured it wasn't that big a deal. Would I like them to be home for part of that time? Sure. But ya know? It isn't about me - it's about them and what will be best for them. So yeah... I see them off on the 24th, and see them home on the 2nd. It's not a tragedy.

No, it doesn't fall into the realm of a tragedy - but don't your kids want to spend part of Christmas with you?

My kids are sad and upset that they only have a few hours with me... they feel that it's unfair that Dad wanted and got them for all of the long Thanksgiving weekend from Wed Pm - Sunday (see a previous thread I had), and they only get to spend a short time at home. (those are their words, not mine. With me is "home" to them, with dad they feel like guests - no space of their own, sleeping on the floor in the living room after 2+years, etc. Again - their words, their explanations.) The kids don't care about the decree, they're upset it isn't fair to them to miss most of Christmas at home. And sadly, Dad doesn't care about what the kids want.

I understand that the wording of the decree means that he gets all of Christmas Eve through the following Sunday with the exception of about 4 1/4 hours with me - it is at least a 40 - 50 minute drive to dad's. (I'm sure it's in the kids' best interestes to spend almost 2 hours in a car back and forth on Christmas Day...)

My mistake for not thinking every possiblity out when we went to court 6+ years ago.

And my mistake for trusting my attorney that it would be an equitable split of holidays.

Thanks folks.

Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah, Kwanza, Winter Solstice, and or whatever you celebrate.

 

[BalloonGirl]

I'm going to disagree. Holiday time is generally understood to supersede regular visitation time. If you do a search for "holiday time" in the family law section on this site you will find countless posts stating the same.

Thank you. I believe it should as well, however, my decree has no provision for me having the noon - 8 AM the following day, only when it is his year to have the kiddos in the afternoon does he get them until 8 AM the next day.

I appreciate someone seeing things in a different light from those above.

 

[Zephyr]

Thank you. I believe it should as well, however, my decree has no provision for me having the noon - 8 AM the following day, only when it is his year to have the kiddos in the afternoon does he get them until 8 AM the next day.

I appreciate someone seeing things in a different light from those above.

Starting in 2003, the parties will alternate each year the half day between Christmas eve and Christmas day, with the parties' minor children spending Christmas eve from 4 pm until 12 noon on Christmas day with dad in odd calendar years, and with Mom on even calendar years; with Dad having the parties' minor children in even calendar years from 12 noon on Christmas day until 8 am the following morning."

Oh I see, for some reason I wasn't making the connection that his time was starting AFTER the specified holiday time....well at least it will be several years before you need to fight this particular battle again.

 

[stealth2]

No, it doesn't fall into the realm of a tragedy - but don't your kids want to spend part of Christmas with you?

My kids are sad and upset that they only have a few hours with me... they feel that it's unfair that Dad wanted and got them for all of the long Thanksgiving weekend from Wed Pm - Sunday (see a previous thread I had), and they only get to spend a short time at home. (those are their words, not mine. With me is "home" to them, with dad they feel like guests - no space of their own, sleeping on the floor in the living room after 2+years, etc. Again - their words, their explanations.) The kids don't care about the decree, they're upset it isn't fair to them to miss most of Christmas at home. And sadly, Dad doesn't care about what the kids want.

Non-legal stuff following...

Ya know... I won't say that they don't WANT to spend (part of) Christmas with me, because I assume they'd enjoy that. They always have. But... I've also raised them knowing that the date of a celebration really isn't that important. The three of us can pick any day we want - and *make* it Christmas. Because the important part of it will be that we're together.

They also know that I roll with the punches, and I won't be sitting home alone, bereft and crying into a glass of wine. If I choose to spend the day quietly on my own, I'll do so because it's what I choose. Or I may get together with friends. I'll likely spend part of the day with my parents. But they don't need to worry about me, because I make every day a great one. Because I choose to.

As for their time with their Dad? They know that it will be their choice as to what kind of time they have. They also feel like visitors at their Dad's, but... no matter where they are, they have one another. (And luckily, while they have their moments, my kids love one another and are good friends who enjoy spending time together.) They can choose to have a lousy time (and won't get much sympathy from me for it!), or they can choose to make the most of it and have a good time.

Now, I don't know how old your kids are (though they must all be > 6), but their Dad & I split up when they were 4 & 6. That's about 12 years ago, since #1 just turned 18. So we've been doing this for more than a couple of years - enough so I don't really even know if it's "my" year or not. Doesn't matter, anyway, IMO. *Personally*, I think it's terrible for the kids to have to split holidays. Alternate? Yes. Split? Then they never get to really spend a holiday anywhere. And that stinks.

Although I agree with Zig - holiday visitation trumps regular.

 

[Sunnyone83]

e: Starting in 2003, the parties will alternate each year the half day between Christmas eve and Christmas day, with the parties' minor children spending Christmas eve from 4 pm until 12 noon on Christmas day with dad in odd calendar years, and with Mom on even calendar years; with Dad having the parties' minor children in even calendar years from 12 noon on Christmas day until 8 am the following morning."


Does your order say anywhere that holiday and vacation time will superceed (sp?) regular visitations? Read through thoroughly and see if something like that is present.
Generally holiday time takes precedence over regular time.

Can OP assume this to be the case even if her order doesn't specifically say it?