Christmas Visitation Issues - already :-(

[wileybunch]

And the Christmas Eve idea sounds fabulous - if it weren't for the fact that 2 of the 3 kiddos still believe in the white haired, big bellied guy showing up with gifts after they go to bed ON Christmas Eve... and that I have this funny thing called a job which will keep me away from home until just about the time I have to leave to take kiddos to dads...

The Santa thing is not that hard to deal with AT ALL. You've been given some suggestions for that, as well.

As for having a job -- it's not Dad's fault you didn't ask or get that day off when that's clearly when you would have had more time to celebrate Christmas according to your court order.

I think the 13yo's disrespect to Dad should not go unnoticed by you -- and I don't mean to give her an "atta girl" for it. Grrr...

 

[MichaCA]

Since daughters father and I have had shared custody since the beginning...I have faced a LOT of weird schedules, some of them unfair...because of inflexibility. Maybe it was easier for me parenting wise...as she was young and just didn't know any better...she was just going back and forth. But sometimes the schedule was just a real pain in the a77 and as their mom you just have to make the best of it.

Only way out is to try to negotiate something with dad, or try to get it modified in court...with some wording that xmas holiday supercedes regular visitation, and its always shared/alternated so that its fair every year.

I feel for you with a teenager though, who already knows whats going on...my daughter is kind of catching on to those areas where its clearly inflexibility on the part of one parent, and the feeling of disrespect that comes with that. But in the end, its not horrible...it may seem like it now, but the time will pass and you will have the days after xmas weekend to chill with your children, play, really do it up. I think with shared parenting, we have to adopt a very flexible attitude towards traditional holidays, because its just the way the childrens' live will always be.

 

[xxnatalixx]

I would have loved a schedule like that. Dad and I were suppose to exchange at midnight. Thank God neither one of us wanted to do that.

 

[xxnatalixx]

This is so funny, I had to share it. (copied and pasted from my court house website.....apparently half the school bread has to be spent with each parent.


Christmas school vacation shall be divided so that each parent has the opportunity to celebrate the Christmas holiday with the child. If the parents are unable to agree on a division, one half of the school bread shall be spent with each parent, provided further that the children shall spend Christmas Eve from noon to midnight with one parent and Christmas Day from midnight of Christmas Eve to 10:30 p.m. with the other. The parents shall alternate first and second half of Christmas School vacation each year and shall alternate Christmas Eve and Christmas Day each year. If the parents do not otherwise agree, New Years day and New years Eve shall be spent with the parent who has the second half of the School break.

 

[maryjo]

Ok...so....I have been kind of disturbed about something like this all weekend. And I dont know when it is we allow children to at least speak their mind.

I am not talking about them being rude or disrespectful. But, for example, this was my weekend per our Christmas vacation split. I got first half until 3pm on Christmas day and he gets second half from 3pm Christmas day.

But, since I knew ex probably wouldnt be able to keep him the whole week I was just going to let the weekends stay the same and let him take him this weekend. Our son called him on Friday and asked if he could go to my Christmas party at work. I made him call and ask himself because he is almost 11 and needs to start speaking for himself, but also because when I step in between our son and my ex, ex thinks its all my ideas. So I stay out of things and tell our son that if he wants something like that, he has to call and ask about it.

Dad told him he could stay but if he did he wouldnt be able to come out there at all this weekend. Our son thought dad was being nice since he never wants to go out there anyway! But dad was NOT being nice.

I texted dad and told him I would bring son out there after the party if he still wanted him to come. Son didnt want me to do that but I told him it was in respect for his dad to at least offer it. Dad replied "let him stay there he doesnt want to see me anyway."

Our son saw this text because I was working and very busy and told him to check my phone, knowing it was his dad, and expecting a simple yes or no reply. When our son saw that I asked him what he thought about it. He said "I dont care. Let him think what he wants to think."

My ex has, in the past, said that if our son doesnt want to go there to let him know and not to bring him. But that was also said with an attitude. It isnt that our son doesnt want to see him, its the girlfriend.

Anyway, I have felt bad about this all weekend because I dont know if I did something wrong. If I should have made him miss the party and go or what.

Late that night I got two text messages from dad saying he doesnt understand why he is paying me and never gets to see his son..and later that he guessed he would get an answer from me when he stopped my money. I didnt respond to either.

Fact is though that he is the one always cancelling on our son. He hasnt seen him most of this year and that has been TOTALLY on him. I would NEVER keep our son from him.

But can kids start speaking up for themselves? I know that doesnt mean they always get what they want. And I realize that we all have to follow the court orders. But they should at least feel like their feelings are being heard.

I dont mean to hijack. Just found this thread interesting after what I went through this weekend.

 

[haiku]

when it comes to court ordered stuff, for gods sake people...keep it between the grownups! Don't put the kid in the position of asking for the weekend times to change-its NOT ther call, and it automatically puts the parent who may want to say "no" for perfectly good reason, in the bad guy position. And when you know its volatile between the grownups, don't let your kids intercept your messages.

its really that simple.

 

[maryjo]

when it comes to court ordered stuff, for gods sake people...keep it between the grownups! Don't put the kid in the position of asking for the weekend times to change-its NOT ther call, and it automatically puts the parent who may want to say "no" for perfectly good reason, in the bad guy position. And when you know its volatile between the grownups, don't let your kids intercept your messages.

its really that simple.

I totally understand that and I agree. However, in MY case, if I tell my ex something concering our son...something our son wants or is upset about or whatever...he will NOT believe it comes from our son. He thinks its my own issue or complaint or something I put in our son's head. Most of the time if our son tells him himself he will still accuse me of planting the idea. But sometimes he will take his word for it. Its silly, its petty, its immature...but thats what he does.

I dont ALWAYS have my son ask his father for the things that he wants. But for something like this I did. If he had said no, no biggie. But I figured this was between them. Not me.

 

[MichaCA]

My ex is very much the same. I have brainwashed our daughter from day one. Yet the way I deal with visitation negotiations when they come up...is they have to stay between me and the dad, period. Dad constantly brings up to daughter...for ex. he requested a change in xmas schedule so daughter can see out of state niece...fine...we were actually able to agree on changes. However the last time she comes home she tells me about dad complaining about the changes...that I got more time. I am thinking, WHY does he keep discussing this stuff with her, doesn't he realize HE is alienating her from him (cause she doesn't want to hear this crap).

In the end, I have to not care what dad thinks of me, what he accuses me of in court. The only way it damages our child is when he spills to her, and thats something I have no control over. I wholeheartedly believe ALL changes in a court ordered schedule should be only discussed by the parents, and then shared with the child only when there is agreement.

My opinion, there is a difference in a child speaking up to a parent, and sharing their feelings, and what they want. But to ask for changes in the court ordered schedule is totally not fair to the other parent...and I believe its up to the parents to do all the asking. Takes the kid out of the middle and prevents bad feelings.

 

[haiku]

I totally understand that and I agree. However, in MY case, if I tell my ex something concering our son...something our son wants or is upset about or whatever...he will NOT believe it comes from our son. He thinks its my own issue or complaint or something I put in our son's head. Most of the time if our son tells him himself he will still accuse me of planting the idea. But sometimes he will take his word for it. Its silly, its petty, its immature...but thats what he does.

I dont ALWAYS have my son ask his father for the things that he wants. But for something like this I did. If he had said no, no biggie. But I figured this was between them. Not me.

Well so what? If you are asking or having son ask to cut dads time short, dad is within his rights to say no, and it really doesn't matter why he does or what he thinks of you.

Stop caring what he thinks of you, because it doesn't matter.

And no, when it comes to your office party on dads time-it is kind of your issue and not your sons issue. For one thing at 11 years old-you should not have invited your son to your christmas party when you knew it was on dads time-that put stress on your son to chose parents-at a time when it was dads time to have him. Remeber that some years one parent has to give alittle and this year was your turn.

 

[maryjo]

Well so what? If you are asking or having son ask to cut dads time short, dad is within his rights to say no, and it really doesn't matter why he does or what he thinks of you.

Stop caring what he thinks of you, because it doesn't matter.

And no, when it comes to your office party on dads time-it is kind of your issue and not your sons issue. For one thing at 11 years old-you should not have invited your son to your christmas party when you knew it was on dads time-that put stress on your son to chose parents-at a time when it was dads time to have him. Remeber that some years one parent has to give alittle and this year was your turn.

ACTUALLY....it was MY time. I was BEING NICE and letting dad have him this weekend. It was MY half of Christmas vacation. This year I got the first week up until 3pm on Christmas day. And trust me...the ONLY parent here giving anything has always been me. I give and give and give. Its DAD who never does. And yet, I still give. Because its about the child. I have done everything dad asked and demanded of me. I have never, EVER, EVER, not even...not if....told him no when it came to seeing his child. I didnt care whose court appointed time it was or whatever else it might be interfering with. I do it for our son, not my ex.


And it wasnt an office party. I work in a group home and it was a FAMILY party for the staff and their family and the guys who live there and their family. He had been at work with me for two days helping me get ready for it and my assitant's kids..his friends..were also going to be there. And all dad had to do was say he could meet me 3 hours later and he still could have the weekend I was GIVING to him. He didnt want to compromise which is why he told the 11 year old that if he stayed for the party but couldnt come for the weekend at all. I had already told our son that he couldnt come to the party because he was going to his dad's. I told him I would make him a plate of food and keep it for him or let him take some with him since he was there helping me get ready for it. Since he was adament about staying for the party I told him he would have to call his dad and ask. He is 11, not 3. He is old enough to ask his dad questions, even about his visitation times. But again, lets keep in mind, that this was MY legal court appointed time.

This was MY court appointed time I was being nice about giving to dad since I knew he probably wouldnt be able to take him for the entire week next week. Just like he didnt take him but for 2 days last Christmas, didnt take him at all for the summer, didnt take about 75% of his weekends over the past year, has NEVER taken his one evening a week, any spring breaks and only one of our son's birthdays.

In case you missed my posts back in Sept. and Oct. I ALSO agreed to dad getting a reduction in the back child support he owes, didnt fight a reduction in his child support (because he refuses to find a full time job that pays enough for him to live off of), agreed to meeting him half way to the city he moved to to live with his girlfriend, and agreed to allow him to pay his now reduced back child support at the rate of 25 dollars a month...for the next 6 years. But thanks for your concern that I dont give enough...LOL!

 

[haiku]

Oh for cripes sake.....

children should not discuss their visitation with their parents. Period end of statement.

Either parents saintliness be darned....

and with that honestly, I have derailed this thread enough...

 

[CJane]

I've just gotta say, my kids have "been aware of" the court order from day 1. We used to have a calendar with my days in one color and Dad's in another. That was a staple of the household from the very beginning.

And since then, if the kids want to do something on that parent's time, doesn't matter what it is, it's been their responsibility to ask that parent, just as they would need to ask the parent in an intact household. It's not necessarily putting the kid in the middle to expect them to advocate for themselves, or to stand up for themselves.

We should not intentionally use them as messengers or mediators, but they SHOULD be taught that they need to make their wishes/feelings/wants/needs known to the other parent.

 

[haiku]

In my experience, in cases where both parents communicate well, it transfers to the children and everyone can negotiate their time together, be on top of schedules and be comfortable discussing them.

Too many times though, here and in my real life experience, having the kids be in charge of their cusotdial schedule, especially when there is some animosity between the parents already, creates way to much animosity and power struggle. Makes one parent feel the other is against them and pitting the kids against them, and puts one parent usualy the one with less time in the position of always being the bad guy. The experiences in this thread are a perfect example of that.

 

[maryjo]

I've just gotta say, my kids have "been aware of" the court order from day 1. We used to have a calendar with my days in one color and Dad's in another. That was a staple of the household from the very beginning.

And since then, if the kids want to do something on that parent's time, doesn't matter what it is, it's been their responsibility to ask that parent, just as they would need to ask the parent in an intact household. It's not necessarily putting the kid in the middle to expect them to advocate for themselves, or to stand up for themselves.

We should not intentionally use them as messengers or mediators, but they SHOULD be taught that they need to make their wishes/feelings/wants/needs known to the other parent.

I totally agree so long as they are old enough. And I think 10..almost 11..is old enough. It would be different if they were little.

And in reference to Haiku's last post...I totally disagree. Even children should have some idea of where their life is headed. If I had to live day to day not knowing where I would be every weekend or holiday I would be a mess. Especially as a child. They have the right to know where they are going to be living and when. Why do so many people feel that children do not deserve respect that we give any other human being? Not letting them control every situation is one thing...letting them know whats going on and letting them voice their concern is another.

Had his dad said no..he has to miss the party and come here..that would have been it. End of story. I would have sided with dad. But he is the one who gave our son the choice and our son made his choice. Now dad does not have the right to get upset and threaten me because he doesnt like the choice our son made.

 

[haiku]

Where did I say kids can't know where they are going to be on any given week? Thats not what I am talking about at all.

Children should know they go to dads every other weekend, split christmas specific days etc... end of statement.

The adults need to take into consideration the occasions when something really special comes up. But in no way should children be the ones stuck in the middle, because if an event happens on that parents time they DO have the right to say no, just as the CP could if they made other plans on their custodial day too.