daughter accuses son of sexual abuse

[mrsvain]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Mexico

A month ago my 12 year old daughter accused my 15 year old son of coming into her room after everyone is asleep (around 1 am) and getting on top of her, kissing her like he did his girlfriend and then putting his d*ck in her mouth. and this has been going on since she was 4 year old. she also said that she had bruises on her inter thigh to prove he was doing things to her. now cyfd is involved and there id a police investigation going on. and many many questions.

the police did do a search warrent on the house looking for dna. the only thing they found was a tube sock with some questionable substances they took for further testing. after they left i asked the boy if he ever cam in the tubesock or wipe it with a tubesock, he said no.

95% of me doesnt think the happened and she is making it up. i never saw any kind of sexual or inapproriate behavior between the two. they fight god awful about the phone, and everything else. and he does hit her arm or the back of her head, and does trip her somethings usually after she has yelled or hit him first. but that that was normal. my son is basically a good kid; no drugs or alcohol, doesnt hang out with gang members, has many friends and gets along with everyone (except his sister), no parties, doesnt stay out too late (does break curfew sometimes) and does not really lie, (all proven)he is horrible with doing his homework and his grades is really the only problem we had have with him and his back talking. my daughter on the other hand has been horrible the last two years, she usually is happy thou, smiling and laughing and singing all the time, she is a huggy type of person, but she lies all the time (proven), stole her bf sister nintendo ds (because she wanted one), stole money from me on 2 different occasion (claims she found it)stole my sister and nieces jewerly, stole my wedding rings, makes up stories to her friends (once that we were moving, once that her dad was going to prison, that i force her to clean the house and take care of the kids, so forth and so on) she loves being the victim and enjoys the attention she gets from it. when asks about anything above she lies, never does admit to stealing or lying or making up stories. she never shows remorse or has a concience. dispite these troubles, i did think they were normal teenage girl issues.

i am very confused about this and dont understand why she is making these stories up. the police has interview both children and told us that they believe the girl because they just dont see her making this stuff up and her story is constant. i asked them if she was able to give details about the abuse such as after he put his d*ck in her mouth what did he do, did he ejaculate, and so forth. i actually had to tell him, well, when was the last time you got a blowjob and didnt move your d*ck. the cop basically told me that the fact that she cant give details does not concern him, that he figures it was too traumatizing for her to remember details. when i pushed him saying this is sappose to be happening since she was 4 surely she can remember something. he still was not convinced. when i questioned my daughter why she did not yell or scream or ifight back, she said she did kinda of fight him off and that she was scared of her brother hitting her. i told her that does not make sense, if she faught him surely i would have heard. i am a very light sleeper and many things wake me up during the night. plus that if she was so scared of her brother then why did she fight and yell and tell and hit him for anything else. she had nothing to say. once i asked her how in the world did he get you to open your mouth in the first place, and she hemmed and haaad finally mumbling something about just playing along with it. the 5 inch bruises she had on either side of her thigh--well when asked about it, the girl says she has no idea how they got there or what my son did to her because she slept through it all and never woke up (!?!) she just knows they are from her brother because he does things to her.

i have no idea what to do. how do i prove his innocence? i found a counsoler online out of ny and called him. all he said was that no charges could be brought on my son since in most cases there has to be a 4 year age difference between the siblings for it to be sexually abuse. but wanted me to check in my state. i have no idea how to find this information out. i also talked to a friend of a cop, and he said that even if the police can not find any evidence on my son, there will still be charges and it will still be takin to court because my daughter is a minor.

cyfd and the police only returned my daughter home with the stipulation my son had to leave. so he is now 330 miles away living with my parents. we are in the process of getting counseling for both children but running into brick walls. but it will be done asap. cyfd sends someone once a week to the house, and i have been told positive things. i also asked cyfd what they thought about the bruises and she admitted that they are suspious only because she doesnt remember or slept thru it doesnt make sense. (my daughter was helping us decorate a float on fri and was in a float herself on sat. she told on monday, the bruises were completely gone by wednes). since the first allegation, she stole my contact lenses and i overheard on the phone on many occasions telling lies to her friends even after being told by me, police and cyfd not to talk about it to noone. 3 weeks after the first accustion, just when it was dying down, she called cyfd from school last thurs and told them i was beating her (completely false) over the stolen contact lenses so now we have a new case with cyfd. but on tuesday, she admitted to the caseworker that i never hit her, just that she did not feel safe in the home because i have a short temper and a short fuse with her and i yell alot at her. cops were brought back to the house to talk with her and they decided that she would remain in the house and she is safe. the caseworker told me what she said and i told her well you just proved yourself she was lying becuase the only reason you are here is because she said i beat her and now she said i never hit her, the caseworker said that is why the police were called so the little girl understands how serious these lies were. dont really think it helped thou.

I talked to the police today and was told that the investating officer has completed his report and has to turn it in to the da. the da will decide if charges are to be brought against my son. i asked about the sock and no results yet, i told him about the new allegations and that i didnt understand why she is doing this (police has said they want to know why)but that i thought she was doing it for the attention. i get the feeling (might be wrong) that cyfd also thinks the same thing. the cop did say that the da will more then likely talk to the cyfd office since they are involved but he is not sure.

Any advise is welcome. i am sure you all have many questions and i will answer honestly. i really need help with this case. i dont think my son did this and the police has told us they are going to get him with criminal intent, incest, sexual penitration on a minor, and sexual preditor to resigster the rest of his life. of course my son says he didnt and my daughter still maintains that he did even after she admitted to lying that i beat her.

 

[Adalaide78]

Regardless of the truthfullness of these allegations, it sounds like you have one very messed up little girl. It is entirely possible that the reason she is this messed up is because her brother has been abusing her for 8 years. Maybe not. You also can't know if your son is guilty or not just by what a "good kid" he is the rest of the time. Sexual predator often come of as normal people and no one suspects them. As a teen I was molested by my step-brother. It only happened once, and there were people who would have heard me had I screamed for help. I didn't. I was scared, scared of him, scared of what people would say about me if they found out, scared of a lot of things. You can't use your opinion on what she should have done in that situation to make a judgement. I can say though that the only thing more traumatizing than being sexually assualted is being told you are a liar when you tell someone.

 

[outonbail]

If your daughter is claiming that her brother has been molesting her since she was four years old, this would have began when he was seven and in the second grade.

I can't see a second grade seven year old demanding a blow job. Maybe playing doctor and grab ass, but oral sex? I know kids grow up fast these days, but I didn't have any idea what oral sex was when I was in the second grade.

What I would do if I wasn't sure who to believe, is have each child submit to a polygraph test. I wouldn't mention this to the local police or to cyfd. I would look into having the polygraph done in a different county and by someone who is qualified, with many years experience doing polygraph exams.

Now these exams can not be submitted as legal proof, nor do they qualify as evidence in a court of law. However, in a case like this, the exam will, or should arrive at the same conclusion twice. It will either show your daughter is not being honest and your son is. Or it will show your daughter is being truthful and not your son. In other words, it can not show each of them are telling the truth.

I would go speak to whoever you pick to do the exams first and make sure you are comfortable with this person and explain the situation and listen to what he/she has to say.
I would also bring the children there at different times or days, not together.

I've used the services of a local polygraph examiner a couple of times with employees who pointed the finger at each other and was able to get to the truth each time. For some reason the became more truthful when they spoke to the examiner.

This is my personal advice, not really legal advise and some members may disagree with this suggestion. But it's your choice and may be one way to get to the truth.

As far as your daughter lying to her friends and playing the victim, she needs counseling like yesterday! Especially if she is fabricating these allegations about her brothers conduct. She needs to be made aware of the damage her lies can cause, if she is indeed lying.
A twelve year old girl shouldn't be so good at lying, that she can pull one over on the police and detectives who interviewed her.

Good luck

 

[Proserpina]

If your daughter is claiming that her brother has been molesting her since she was four years old, this would have began when he was seven and in the second grade.

I can't see a second grade seven year old demanding a blow job. Maybe playing doctor and grab ass, but oral sex? I know kids grow up fast these days, but I didn't have any idea what oral sex was when I was in the second grade.

You can't see that? Seriously - it happens, and with increasing frequency. There are more than enough documented (witnessed) cases.

What I would do if I wasn't sure who to believe, is have each child submit to a polygraph test. I wouldn't mention this to the local police or to cyfd. I would look into having the polygraph done in a different county and by someone who is qualified, with many years experience doing polygraph exams.

Now these exams can not be submitted as legal proof, nor do they qualify as evidence in a court of law. However, in a case like this, the exam will, or should arrive at the same conclusion twice. It will either show your daughter is not being honest and your son is. Or it will show your daughter is being truthful and not your son. In other words, it can not show each of them are telling the truth.

Given that polygraphs are not fool-proof and can be manipulated - even by teens and some younger children - I'm not sure this is prudent at all. More worrisome though is that by the parent putting the children through this, the message is being sent that the parent doesn't believe at least one of the children and that in itself may prevent either child from being honest about what has or hasn't happened.

A twelve year old girl shouldn't be so good at lying, that she can pull one over on the police and detectives who interviewed her.

This I agree with. If in fact she is lying, we must look to the parents in an attempt to help discern exactly why this is happening. What concerns me more is that from the beginning OP has made it quite clear that the son is to be believed while the daughter is not and some of the justification as to why she should not be believed is disturbing on many levels.

BOTH of these children need to be examined by professionals, and BOTH of these children need to be in counseling. Other than that, we are remiss in advising anything other than "seek legal and psychological counseling for your children".

 

[Adalaide78]

Polygraph your kids? Seriously? What do you say to your kid?
"I think you are a lying little brat and you're getting your brother into trouble that he shouldn't be in so we're going to have you take a lie detector test to prove it."
It doesn't matter what you tell your kid, it would be pretty obvious why it's being done. OP has either raised a lying and manipulative child that should have been in therapy years ago or raised a sexual predator who needs to be permanantly removed from the home so his sister can be safe. Either way, as stated both kids need therpay NOW. Not whenever it becomes convienant to do so. When your child says she has been sexually assaulted for 8 years you don't goof off with "brick walls" you make a freaking appointment with a counselor.

ETA: My daughter came home from school in kindergarten and asked what a blow job is. She was 5 and I was shocked beyond reason. If 5 year olds are hearing about this sort of thing I'm sure 7 year olds are too. Also, she'll be 15 in less than a month so there isn't a "it's different now" arguement for that.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Mexico

A month ago my 12 year old daughter accused my 15 year old son of coming into her room after everyone is asleep (around 1 am) and getting on top of her, kissing her like he did his girlfriend and then putting his d*ck in her mouth. and this has been going on since she was 4 year old. she also said that she had bruises on her inter thigh to prove he was doing things to her. now cyfd is involved and there id a police investigation going on. and many many questions.

CYFD and the police SHOULD be involved. Has one or both of the children been removed from the house?

the police did do a search warrent on the house looking for dna. the only thing they found was a tube sock with some questionable substances they took for further testing. after they left i asked the boy if he ever cam in the tubesock or wipe it with a tubesock, he said no.

So he remembers every thing that may have ejaculate upon it?

95% of me doesnt think the happened and she is making it up.

And you have told your daughter this? Is she in counseling?

i never saw any kind of sexual or inapproriate behavior between the two. they fight god awful about the phone, and everything else. and he does hit her arm or the back of her head, and does trip her somethings usually after she has yelled or hit him first. but that that was normal.

It is called assault and it can be criminal. So he can abuse your daughter but that is okay and normal.

my son is basically a good kid;

Except for the fact that your daughter is saying he raped her and has done so several times. OH and you know that he ASSAULTS your daughter but you excuse that as normal.

no drugs or alcohol, doesnt hang out with gang members, has many friends and gets along with everyone (except his sister), no parties, doesnt stay out too late (does break curfew sometimes) and does not really lie, (all proven)he is horrible with doing his homework and his grades is really the only problem we had have with him and his back talking.

I see you making excuses for him breaking curfew and abusing his sister -- you are the one who says he hits her.

my daughter on the other hand has been horrible the last two years, she usually is happy thou, smiling and laughing and singing all the time, she is a huggy type of person, but she lies all the time (proven), stole her bf sister nintendo ds (because she wanted one), stole money from me on 2 different occasion (claims she found it)stole my sister and nieces jewerly, stole my wedding rings, makes up stories to her friends (once that we were moving, once that her dad was going to prison, that i force her to clean the house and take care of the kids, so forth and so on) she loves being the victim and enjoys the attention she gets from it. when asks about anything above she lies, never does admit to stealing or lying or making up stories. she never shows remorse or has a concience. dispite these troubles, i did think they were normal teenage girl issues.

They can also be due to the fact that she is being sexually abused. But hey, excuse your son and put your head in the sand.

i am very confused about this and dont understand why she is making these stories up.

She might not be. Is she in counseling?

the police has interview both children and told us that they believe the girl because they just dont see her making this stuff up and her story is constant. i asked them if she was able to give details about the abuse such as after he put his d*ck in her mouth what did he do, did he ejaculate, and so forth. i actually had to tell him, well, when was the last time you got a blowjob and didnt move your d*ck. the cop basically told me that the fact that she cant give details does not concern him, that he figures it was too traumatizing for her to remember details. when i pushed him saying this is sappose to be happening since she was 4 surely she can remember something. he still was not convinced.

I am not convinced either. Quite frankly I have several children on my caseload (I am an attorney GAL) that have been subjected to sexual abuse by a family member -- in some cases a sibling and in other cases a parent. The worst cases are when the parents -- those who are supposed to protect the child -- immediately assume the child is lying. That quite frankly allows the abuse to continue.

when i questioned my daughter why she did not yell or scream or ifight back, she said she did kinda of fight him off and that she was scared of her brother hitting her. i told her that does not make sense, if she faught him surely i would have heard. i am a very light sleeper and many things wake me up during the night. plus that if she was so scared of her brother then why did she fight and yell and tell and hit him for anything else. she had nothing to say.

Well heck you believe it is perfectly acceptable for your son to hit your daughter -- that is normal and ordinary. Considering you think she is a liar I can understand why she wouldn't come to you.

once i asked her how in the world did he get you to open your mouth in the first place, and she hemmed and haaad finally mumbling something about just playing along with it. the 5 inch bruises she had on either side of her thigh--well when asked about it, the girl says she has no idea how they got there or what my son did to her because she slept through it all and never woke up (!?!) she just knows they are from her brother because he does things to her.

That is very possible.

i have no idea what to do. how do i prove his innocence? i found a counsoler online out of ny and called him. all he said was that no charges could be brought on my son since in most cases there has to be a 4 year age difference between the siblings for it to be sexually abuse.

The counselor is 100% wrong. COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY. That is sexual abuse. Your daughter is allegedly a victim. Your son is allegedly a perpetrator.

but wanted me to check in my state. i have no idea how to find this information out. i also talked to a friend of a cop, and he said that even if the police can not find any evidence on my son, there will still be charges and it will still be takin to court because my daughter is a minor.

Good.

cyfd and the police only returned my daughter home with the stipulation my son had to leave. so he is now 330 miles away living with my parents.

Truthfully your daughter should be removed since you have no sympathy, no understanding and basically are accusing her of lying. I don't blame her for not talking to you and understand why she won't open her mouth to you.

we are in the process of getting counseling for both children but running into brick walls. but it will be done asap. cyfd sends someone once a week to the house, and i have been told positive things. i also asked cyfd what they thought about the bruises and she admitted that they are suspious only because she doesnt remember or slept thru it doesnt make sense.

It does make sense. Especially if the child is traumatized.

(my daughter was helping us decorate a float on fri and was in a float herself on sat. she told on monday, the bruises were completely gone by wednes). since the first allegation, she stole my contact lenses and i overheard on the phone on many occasions telling lies to her friends even after being told by me, police and cyfd not to talk about it to noone.

Telling lies? Really? What lies?

I snipped a bunch but quite frankly your daughter should be removed from your home due to your actions and your accusations.

Any advise is welcome. i am sure you all have many questions and i will answer honestly. i really need help with this case. i dont think my son did this and the police has told us they are going to get him with criminal intent, incest, sexual penitration on a minor, and sexual preditor to resigster the rest of his life. of course my son says he didnt and my daughter still maintains that he did even after she admitted to lying that i beat her.

She can lie about one thing and be telling the truth about the other. Seriously. The fact that you accuse her of lying everytime she turns around, it is very easy to see why she never said anything to you. She needs removed from her home and placed in a household that is supportive of her and gets her the counseling she needs without constantly tearing her down.

 

[Ohiogal]

If your daughter is claiming that her brother has been molesting her since she was four years old, this would have began when he was seven and in the second grade.

I can't see a second grade seven year old demanding a blow job. Maybe playing doctor and grab ass, but oral sex? I know kids grow up fast these days, but I didn't have any idea what oral sex was when I was in the second grade.

Then you are behind the times. I can tell you that is possible however the daughter didn't say he was demanding blowjobs since seven -- only that he was doing things to her since seven.

What I would do if I wasn't sure who to believe, is have each child submit to a polygraph test. I wouldn't mention this to the local police or to cyfd. I would look into having the polygraph done in a different county and by someone who is qualified, with many years experience doing polygraph exams.

I wouldn't have the alleged victim submit. I would have the alleged perpetrator submit. The alleged victim needs OUT OF THE HOUSE and away from this parent.

Now these exams can not be submitted as legal proof, nor do they qualify as evidence in a court of law.

Actually they can in some instances be evidence in a court of law in criminal procedings. In this case, I am not sure but that statement you made is not correct.

However, in a case like this, the exam will, or should arrive at the same conclusion twice. It will either show your daughter is not being honest and your son is. Or it will show your daughter is being truthful and not your son. In other words, it can not show each of them are telling the truth.

Actually it can depending on the questions asked and other factors.

I would go speak to whoever you pick to do the exams first and make sure you are comfortable with this person and explain the situation and listen to what he/she has to say.
I would also bring the children there at different times or days, not together.

I would not take the daughter at all. Quite frankly the daughter needs removed from the care and custody of this parent and placed in a neutral home. This PARENT is a major part of the problem.

I've used the services of a local polygraph examiner a couple of times with employees who pointed the finger at each other and was able to get to the truth each time. For some reason the became more truthful when they spoke to the examiner.

This is my personal advice, not really legal advise and some members may disagree with this suggestion. But it's your choice and may be one way to get to the truth.

Actually it is NOT her choice necessarily. CYF is involved. It may be CYF's choice if they have custody of either of the children. It may be the counselor's choice. It depends. You cannot make this statement unilaterally.

As far as your daughter lying to her friends and playing the victim, she needs counseling like yesterday! Especially if she is fabricating these allegations about her brothers conduct. She needs to be made aware of the damage her lies can cause, if she is indeed lying.
A twelve year old girl shouldn't be so good at lying, that she can pull one over on the police and detectives who interviewed her.

She may not be lying. I have dealt with juvenile sexual abuse victims continuously in my role as GAL. They may lie, they may forget, they may deny. They may have other issues due to the abuse (lying, stealing, acting out are three of them -- combined with sexual promiscuity, drinking, drugs and others that come up in the children's lives at some point).

Good luck

My good luck is reserved for the daughter. Because mom is NOT helping the issue at all.

 

[Proserpina]

Then you are behind the times. I can tell you that is possible however the daughter didn't say he was demanding blowjobs since seven -- only that he was doing things to her since seven.



I wouldn't have the alleged victim submit. I would have the alleged perpetrator submit. The alleged victim needs OUT OF THE HOUSE and away from this parent.


Actually they can in some instances be evidence in a court of law in criminal procedings. In this case, I am not sure but that statement you made is not correct.


Actually it can depending on the questions asked and other factors.


I would not take the daughter at all. Quite frankly the daughter needs removed from the care and custody of this parent and placed in a neutral home. This PARENT is a major part of the problem.



Actually it is NOT her choice necessarily. CYF is involved. It may be CYF's choice if they have custody of either of the children. It may be the counselor's choice. It depends. You cannot make this statement unilaterally.



She may not be lying. I have dealt with juvenile sexual abuse victims continuously in my role as GAL. They may lie, they may forget, they may deny. They may have other issues due to the abuse (lying, stealing, acting out are three of them -- combined with sexual promiscuity, drinking, drugs and others that come up in the children's lives at some point).




My good luck is reserved for the daughter. Because mom is NOT helping the issue at all.

You said the one heckuva lot nicer than I was able (which is why I didn't say anything, really).

These are NOT healthy, well-adjusted children.

 

[mrsvain]

Ohiogal. It is hard to give all the details and information in one little forum. But you are an attorney and feel like you have the right to not only condemn me as a bad mother and not sympathizing with her or caring for her but instead of offering suggestions and the help i asked for, you feel free to persecute me for things you "think" i didnt do or should have done. I hope you dont make snap decisions on someones guilt like you have mine in court. Yes, i am confused, Yes, i am in pain, And i came online to this site for help so i can make solid, well researched, and confident decisions in this case. that alone should prove how much i care about my children and that DOES include the 12 year old girl also.

I have raised and cared for both of these children from before they were even born. i have watched, and protected and tried to teach both morals and good values. i have tried to teach them right and wrong and how to make good decisions and right choices, to stand up for themselves and to be independent as well as a lawful and productive citizen. And to make sure they are safe, secure in their home and have a happy, loving and caring childhood. i have seen their personalities developed and supported their growing pains. But mostly i have showed them both that they are loved and cherished and cared for and are my entire world.

i have no idea what makes you feel that the girl has not been protected or loved or cared for or listened to and how in the world all this became MY fault and she needs protection from me and i am the problem. I have no idea who you are and have no desire to even figure out how you think lady, but i would bet my bottom dollar that if this happened to you, you would react the same way and be just as in shock, lost and confused that i am feeling.

so i will attempt to respond to your questions; just to straighten out some misunderstandings.

CYFD and the police SHOULD be involved. Has one or both of the children been removed from the house?

i never said they SHOULDNT be, i was merely trying to tell people where we are at and the reason i am scared and seeking advise from online lawyers. And yes, i already said that in order to get my daughter back 2 days later, i have to remove my son for her safety, he is currently living with my parents.

So he remembers every thing that may have ejaculate upon it?

probably not, but he remembers that he what he did not ejaculate on. would you like the list of this he has ejaculated on? maybe you feel I shouldn’t have ask him? What would have been the correct question? Btw, the sock has not been processed yet so we are waiting.

And you have told your daughter this?

of course not, are you dense. i wouldnt hurt her that way, she is only 12. i havent told either one anything on what i feel. this is my personal opinion and i am desperately looking for answers to believe her. i ask her questions i feel that anyone would ask and i ask him questions the same. because i do realize if this has happened to her how much that could damage her. and believe me or not, i am worried about how all of this is going to effect her and change her.

Is she in counseling?

she has a counselor with cyfd we are looking for someone more permanent and who can continue to counsel her after all this.

It is called assault and it can be criminal. So he can abuse your daughter but that is okay and normal.

did you not see where i said they do it to each other. and the fights they normally have are verbal, so yelling and screaming and even name calling. Which I think is normal for most children that age. and dont condone and try to prevent. mostly her since she is a yeller and he just withholds whatever it is she wants to egg her on. she has been known to flat out attack him if she feels like he is doing her wrong (ie: holding the phone over his head so she cant reach it) And never, never did i say this was okay but it is normal for children to fight, especially brothers and sisters. but you must have never fought with your siblings or you are an only child so that must be why you dont understand this and needed additional explanations. my son got in serious trouble for doing those things to his sister, and when things were handled poorly by either party then they were punished. this doesnt happen frequently just every blue moon. the slaps on the arm or biff to the back of the head were NOT only not accepted but privileges taken away. however they were not extremely violent or even painful. just annoying, i know because i have had this happen to me occasionally (NOT by my son). i do not consider a biff to the back of the head as assault but believe me lady if it had been i would have called the cops on him for it.

Except for the fact that your daughter is saying he raped her and has done so several times. OH and you know that he ASSAULTS your daughter but you excuse that as normal.

Actually she NEVER said he RAPED her. are you sure you are able to pay attention to detail. she said he put his dick in her mouth. And please spare me, i am not saying that is any better or more acceptable then rape. i was saying that giving our life as a whole, he was generally a good kid. when did that ever be a crime to say he was a good kid, she was a good kid too actually. i never thought either one was capable of doing either of these actions. and i was only trying to make an effort to point that out. i would never say my kids are perfect because they are not and was explaining that with examples of issues we have had with them in the past 12 to 15 years--to give a peek into our daily lives before these allegations came up. the problems that came up in the past, i did concern as normal at the time. it is not that they all hit at the same time within the course of a month, these problems were issues spread out throughout their lifetime and didnt bring up suspicion that they were anything indications of deeper mental problems was all i was trying to get at. Apparently i failed miserably at that.

I see you making excuses for him breaking curfew and abusing his sister -- you are the one who says he hits her.

i never made excuses for him breaking curfew or abusing his sister. see explanation above. and i dont know what you mean by the last part. yes, i have witnessed him biff her on the head or arm and yes, he did get punished for such actions to her.

 

[mrsvain]

They can also be due to the fact that she is being sexually abused. But hey, excuse your son and put your head in the sand.

d*mn you really are a b*tch arent you. well, to tell you the truth, i never saw it as that, because as i mentioned before these actions occurred spread out thou her life. And were not thought of as warning signals for any kind of serious abuse. i was a kid once who stole a few times and lied a few times and made up stories so people would like me. so i try to understand my children actions, but mostly i communicate with them. they talk to me about a lot of things (i am not going to say everything) my daughter knows she can come ask me questions about anything that bothers her. we have talked about sex and boyfriends and school and problems with her friends and problems with her brother too. if a child has one or two nightmares; do you immediately suspect she has been sexually abused because it falls into the symptoms or do you think she might had watched a scary movie at her friends house last weekend. if she steals money out of your purse, or lies about it, do you think she has been sexually abused because it is one of the symptoms or do you think she probably just did it so she can buy her friends a coke. (which by the way she told me and i verified with the friends). i dont feel like i ever made any excuses either for my son or my daughter. i dont have my head in the sand or up my azz. if either one tell me something, i take the time to verify it. if he said he was going to the skatepark, i wait an hour or a few minutes then jump in my truck and make sure he is there. if she said she is going to the movies, i do the same. if they tell me a friend said or a friend gave me or whatever, then i call the friend. i am very active in their lives and they know it.

She might not be. Is she in counseling?

yes, she has cfyd counselor coming every week. and i do know she made up the story about me beating her because i havent even spanked her since she was 8. i believe that as children get old the one swat to the butt no longer works and they are too old of it and new discipline needs to be done. and i am desperately trying to figure out the first part. of course i dont want my son to be guilty of this but on the other hand i dont want my daughter to be guilty either. it is very hard trying to sort it all out and know what to do

I am not convinced either. Quite frankly I have several children on my caseload (I am an attorney GAL) that have been subjected to sexual abuse by a family member -- in some cases a sibling and in other cases a parent. The worst cases are when the parents -- those who are supposed to protect the child -- immediately assume the child is lying. That quite frankly allows the abuse to continue.

well i am her parent--and i am protecting my child -- and even thou i am not sure if the abuse occurred, its not like i am taking any chances either so i can tell you the abuse, if it did occur, is not going to continue. which is another reason the boy is out of the house until we can find out what happened. since you are an attorney GAL, you know that i could have easily left the girl in foster care and kept the boy at home. or i could have took the girl to my moms and kept my precious little boy as you seem to think. however i did not. i wanted to my daughter to be at home with her family. and again spare me, i am not even talking about these allegations with the girl unless the cfyd counsel is here.

Well heck you believe it is perfectly acceptable for your son to hit your daughter -- that is normal and ordinary. Considering you think she is a liar I can understand why she wouldn't come to you.

let me guess, you are also one of Those who think spanking is wrong and abuse. let me also assume that you dont have brothers, nephews, cousins who wrestle around the house and teased you merciless either. Probably don’t have any children either for that matter. Well, yet again, i never said it was acceptable for my son to HIT my daughter, which i do believe is completely different from wrestling, biffing on the head, or even spanking (which he is never allowed to do) And yet again, i have not told her i thought she was lying. i am however working with cyfd and the police and whoever else is involved, i dont have anything to hide, and.... yet again, she does actually come to me about many many many things. which is why i dont understand why she didnt about this. believe me or not, i do care, she is really close to me and we have a good relationship.

That is very possible.

not sure which part you are referring too. i also thought it was possible on the first part and one of the little things i cant add up in my head. but the second part about the bruises is no way possible, what ever he could have done to her, and i thought about, talked about it and even reacted it with my husband, trying to figure out what my son could have done to leave 5 inches bruises on either part of her inner thigh, so whatever he could have done, in NO WAY could she have slept thru it all. it is not possible to get hit, pushed, slapped, stepped on or whatever so hard that it leaves those kinds of bruises with out it also hurting and waking you up.

The counselor is 100% wrong. COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY. That is sexual abuse. Your daughter is allegedly a victim. Your son is allegedly a perpetrator

finally some advise too bad you couldn’t have gone more into this. This is the kind of answers I was looking for. And needing.

Good.

opps, spoke too soon

Truthfully your daughter should be removed since you have no sympathy, no understanding and basically are accusing her of lying. I don't blame her for not talking to you and understand why she won't open her mouth to you.

just wondering on what you based this allegations on. i feel that I am making every effect to understand her and I believe it is perfectly normal to ask questions about who, what, when and why and then trying to figure out if this could actually have happened or if it makes logical sense; as all parents should do. I am worried about how to go about that and saying the wrong thing to her that could potential damage her or make her feel insecure but we need to get to the bottom of this. If you have any significant or helpful suggestions on how you think I can go about this, I am open to it and am willing to try anything.

It does make sense. Especially if the child is traumatized.

I explained it about how it does not make sense. Are you saying that it is possible for you to get 5 inches bruises and sleep thru it all? I understand it would be traumatizing, and she could forget how it happened. However that is not what she is saying, she said she slept thru it and never woke up at all. I am also wondering the time bruises go away. If it happened on Sunday, as she said, would 5 inch bruises be completely gone by Wednesday? It is something I am asking the sane nurse.

Telling lies? Really? What lies?

I could take up a whole section on the lies but to make it short. She said the cops tore up her room during the search, which they did not. I went to her room after they left and I couldn’t tell they had moved anything. She said she was made to take a pregnancy test at school, which I asked the school about and was told that never happened, she also said she had to take a lie detector test at school, asked the police and they said no, that was a lie. Said we are making her stay in her room and are not talking to her and that is also not true. As hard as it is, I am making sure that life at home is a normal as possible, making sure I haven’t treated her any differently and that includes her not being alone but being included in family activities. So on and so forth

I snipped a bunch but quite frankly your daughter should be removed from your home due to your actions and your accusations.

what actions and what accusations. You think that I should not try to find answers? What parent just doesn’t do anything in these types of allegations? I would think that the parent that does nothing would be the kind that doesn’t care not the other way around.

 

[mrsvain]

She can lie about one thing and be telling the truth about the other. Seriously. The fact that you accuse her of lying everytime she turns around, it is very easy to see why she never said anything to you. She needs removed from her home and placed in a household that is supportive of her and gets her the counseling she needs without constantly tearing her down.

yes, she can actually and has before. Seriously. The fact that I am PROVING she is lying about everything every time she turns around has to say something about how troubled she is. And yet again, I am not tearing her down. These issues are what is going on in my own head. And I am trying to deal with it. But you feel I am handling this situation incorrectly, and haven’t taken the proper procedures. However, you never advised me of those procedures or how I should be handling it. Which is what I am looking for. Your absolute convinced that she is telling the truth and have already sentenced my son. But what if you are wrong. What if she is lying about her brother. Your attitude is so closed to that option because you react as everyone else would react to sexual abuse. She is right and he is wrong. And if you are wrong, then you shake your head and say omg, why would she do that. And walk away and sleep well at night.
I have never said I knew either way. But don’t I also have an obligation to protect my son? And how can I find out either way? This is not easy, this is not I stayed out late or I stole my bf sisters Nintendo ds. This is my children so if it is not one getting hurt it will be the other and how do I protect them both. That is what I am searching for because as ugly as it is. One of these children ARE lying and the other the victim. I never said I wouldn’t do whatever I need to do, all I am saying is I need guidance and advise on how to proceed from here.

 

[Proserpina]

d*mn you really are a b*tch arent you.

Look in the mirror, Mom. You've raised either a sex offender or a sociopathic liar.

let me guess, you are also one of Those who think spanking is wrong and abuse. let me also assume that you dont have brothers, nephews, cousins who wrestle around the house and teased you merciless either. Probably don’t have any children either for that matter. Well, yet again, i never said it was acceptable for my son to HIT my daughter, which i do believe is completely different from wrestling, biffing on the head, or even spanking (which he is never allowed to do) And yet again, i have not told her i thought she was lying. i am however working with cyfd and the police and whoever else is involved, i dont have anything to hide, and.... yet again, she doest actually come to me about many many many things. which is why i dont understand why she didnt about this. believe me or not, i do care, she is really close to mean and we have a good relationship.

When you're done making your (vastly inaccurate) assumptions, could you answer why - if you and she are so close, with such a good relationship - your daughter would do this at all?

Get your son an attorney, and get your daughter somewhere safe.

 

[mrsvain]

You said the one heckuva lot nicer than I was able (which is why I didn't say anything, really).

These are NOT healthy, well-adjusted children.

if you would have said that 3 months ago i would have argued with you.

well, apparently i came to the wrong place.

i dont really mind your judgements. i know i didnt explain the situation very well at 11:30 pm and i was prepared to answer any questions anyone had. And the need to go into more detail even.

but i never thought i would be attacked and condemned. i know this is a screwed up situation and it is doesnt fit into the picture perfect normal family (if that even exists). i cant explain what a shock this was; or just how normal we actually were before this happened. my attempts to explain are poorly recieved.

but we are actually a really close family, we do a lot of things as a family, go to the lake, camping, biking, fishing, take the kids to the park, go to any and every school or sport activities, and go to church; we also argue about homework and cleaning your rooms, and chores, about having boyfriends, or wearing certain clothes, and name calling and fighting; we play games at home, and eat dinner most nights at the table as a family. we laugh, play, hug each other, joke and kid around. we play catch, soccer, football and watch tv. i screen my kids friends and call up parents on sleep overs. i go to their schools and talk with their teachers. we have talked about sex, drugs, parties, alcohol, friends and strangers. i make cookies and cakes for school parties. we read stories at bedtimes and praise God to bless us while we sleep. the kids are always in my sight unless at school or friends house, if they are outside and i am cooking dinner, i check on them frequently. if they are inside they are usually all together in the living room but if one walks away and doesnt come back within a resonable amount of time (bathroom breaks) then we go lookin and asking what they are doing. my children also do things together just between the 2 of them, he helps her with a computer game and she helps him with his homework (she is younger but a better student, straight a's) she borrows his shirts for school spirit week, and he has threatened boys who have hurt her or talking crap about her. when he broke his arm, she was there helping him. i was confident that i was doing the right things for my family and have try hard to make the right choices. i dont drink in front of my kids, i dont allow drugs or druggies around my house. and i was proud of what we had as a family.

so this literally came out of the blue and has turned our world upside down. i cant eat, cant sleep, and walk around like a zombie until she comes home from school. i am throwing up blood and find myself forgeting the simplest things, like wear i put the keys or driving past our house on the way home. i am sorry that you all dont understand that. i cant tell you more, because i cant understand it either but that doesnt mean that i love or care for my children any less then i did before. i am working with the cyfd and police dept, talking with the caseworker and counselor about my feelings and my questions. some they have been able to answer and others they have not. i have searched online about sexual abuse trying to figure out how in the world i missed this. i look at my children and try to figure out if anything they have done in the past should have been taken as a sign of deeper mental and emotional problems. i have questioned every action i ever made since the day they were born and i cant find answers. i am not looking for sympathy and do not feel sorry for myself. i am only in a horrible situation that HAS to be figured out and tended to. it CAN not be ignored on any level. And as this is not normal and i never had to deal with anything like this before i am at a loss.

i came online, looking for guidance and possiblities that i can try or advise on what i could have done or what to do and i find myself defending my own self. and i am sorry if you dont understand

 

[mrsvain]

Look in the mirror, Mom. You've raised either a sex offender or a sociopathic liar.



When you're done making your (vastly inaccurate) assumptions, could you answer why - if you and she are so close, with such a good relationship - your daughter would do this at all?

Get your son an attorney, and get your daughter somewhere safe.

thanks again for your response. like i said before you apparently dont understand. and it is okay for her to make her vastly inaccurate assumptions about me as in her posts but i am bad and wrong to say anything back? huh, well go figure that. thanks for the lesson.

and if i knew why i wouldnt be sitting her asking; would i. well at least the last part is helpful, the first i heard since i posted. as for the very last part, she is somewhere safe. thank you for asking.

 

[Adalaide78]

Actually we all understand perfectly. You don't understand how this happened, so instead you deny it happened and call your daughter a liar. You make excuses where you should be taking action. You recieved advice. Get both of your children into counseling NOW. As for legal advice, hire your little sexual predator a lawyer and don't let him near his sister ever again.

I don't know what advice you came here looking for. Did you want us to tell you that you're right, your daughter is likely lying and it's cool to just throw her under a bus so you can bring your son home? No one is going to tell you that. I agree with that you don't belong having either of your children in your care, most especially your daughter. She needs someone who will actually care for her and it doesn't sound like you're that person.