daughter accuses son of sexual abuse

[RRevak]

When it has been admitted that the other child does get physical with the complainant (which has been labeled as "usual stuff", more or less - a term I find less than comforting)? I'd be suspicious of both of 'em. But I'd be extremely concerned that one of my kids is obviously lying about something incredibly serious. And I'd have them separated until the matter was investigated.

I'm not defending anyone here so dont flog me with the wet noodle BUT

I grew up with an older brother..several years older than me..and a younger sister. Fights occurred between us on a regular basis. Sometimes they were normal yelling etc and sometimes we downright kicked the snot outta one another. It was never ok with the parents and we were always punished etc but that happens sometimes with siblings, not always great but its still a fact of life when raising multiple munchkins. Eventually, they dont always get along

 

[RRevak]

So why didn't stellar mom get her lying daughter in counseling? Why didn't she deal with the issue? Oh yeah because mom didn't want to. If she had gotten the lying daughter in counseling when she was stealing and lying, then maybe she wouldn't have this problem. Personally, if daughter was raped then mom needs to lose her rights PERMANENTLY to her.

I'm not sure I agree with the counseling part. If it were lil' bit lying and getting out of hand then it would have been a trip to the police department for the stealing (to learn what happens when people steal) and losing everything she cares about (such as personal items from room and friend privileges etc) until lying daughter got her act together (dont mind me i'm a tough love kinda gal ). But I do agree that if mom nipped her in the bud before she became an issue than she might not be here now. But unfortunately some parents dont seem to have the guts to kick their kids in the behinds. Doesnt always make them bad parents...but it DOES make them weenies. Unfortunately for OP she's now faced with the decision of how to handle the aftermath of her lack of action. I dont envy her position.
But if daughter was truly raped for all these years right under moms nose, then she's far more of a weenie than just putting up with an unruly daughter...she's a downright moron who yes, should lose the daughter as she doesnt have much right to call herself mom anymore.

 

[cbg]

my daughter on the other hand has been horrible the last two years, she usually is happy thou, smiling and laughing and singing all the time, she is a huggy type of person, but she lies all the time ......she loves being the victim and enjoys the attention she gets from it. when asks about anything above she lies, never does admit to stealing or lying or making up stories.

I am neither an attorney nor a mental health professional. But even I know that when a child suddenly starts acting out in this matter, it is in many cases BECAUSE they have been abused and that they are, indeed, looking for more appropriate attention. I am a former teacher and we are trained to pay attention to sudden changes of behavior since they can be the first indicator that there is something seriously wrong in the child's life.

So to me, the above tends to support the daughter's story, rather than negate it.

 

[mrsvain]

only wanted to say to cbg.

last year due to some of the trouble with school, my daughter did see the school counselor on a few occasions. I also met with the school counselor in depth to discuss these issues that had happened. i did share my conserns that my daughter seems to have changed and is lying more and making up stories and now having trouble at school. i asked for her advise on why she thinks the daughter was doing this. And was told at the time that it was all natural and normal for girls that age. and we talked for a long time about the problems. but even then last year and up to april 09, the counselor never thought it was not normal and that the child needed outside counseling.

when this came up in october, i connected that same school counselor again. i asked her if at anytime in her sessions with my daughter did she ever get a hint or felt like there was more to the daughter actions; and finally straight out asked if the counsel ever suspect emotional, physical or sexual abuse to be the cause of my daughter outbreaks. the counselor advised me that no she did not and if she had she not only would have brought it to my attentions but would have called cyfd herself.

maybe i did make mistakes as a parent, God knows i have been beating myself over it and searching the past for anything i could have done differently. i am not going to just stick my head in the sand as i have been accused of doing nor can i ignore the issues now.

for those who say i am handling this incorrectly and not acting correctly. i am still waiting for someone to tell me what action i SHOULD be taking. My appreciation to caveman, and the others who are. the children ARE separated, the children ARE in counselling, and i AM going to talk to a lawyer this coming week. i never said the boy never lied or was a saint and i can not stress enough that i love and care for the girl.

All i would like to know now is what is the normal procedures in cases like this?
After the police are done with their investigation and the report goes to the DA, what happens now?
Will the DA talk with cyfd?
Will they put the 12 year old girl on the stand?
What are the actions i should be taking besides the counselling(done) and separating them (done) and getting a lawyer(done)
is there anything else i could have missed or should ask? and to whom?
plus if there is anyone from nm that can tell the laws in nm and make any suggestions on what i should be doing or asking?
and any other thing my ignorance has missed.

thank you all for your responses.

 

[Proserpina]

Out of interest, was the school counselor also a psychiatrist or psychologist?

With regards to what might happen..honestly, it's very difficult to guess.

They may or may not put your daughter on the stand - obviously it depends in there is actually a case to be prosecuted or not and if so, how the DA wishes to proceed. Everything - literally - hinges on the outcome of the investigation.

Sorry - there's really not much more to be added.

 

[mrsvain]

once the investigation is over, and the investigating officer has written his report and put it in the computer, can i ask to see it? does it then become public record?

 

[Isis1]

i'm going to give my take on this. i've been reading and thinking the last few days. reading responses and such.

BOTH children need to be removed from the home. this way, regardless of who is innocent and who is guilty, neither child is being favored. both need counseling.

mom, you need some serious counseling. not because i think you are a nutcase, but because despite your intent, your goal is a bit misguided. per your first post. your daughter is screaming for help. she's been screaming for help. and for some reason, you aren't listening.

this is something you need to let professionals handle.

 

[Ohiogal]

only wanted to say to cbg.

last year due to some of the trouble with school, my daughter did see the school counselor on a few occasions. I also met with the school counselor in depth to discuss these issues that had happened. i did share my conserns that my daughter seems to have changed and is lying more and making up stories and now having trouble at school. i asked for her advise on why she thinks the daughter was doing this. And was told at the time that it was all natural and normal for girls that age. and we talked for a long time about the problems. but even then last year and up to april 09, the counselor never thought it was not normal and that the child needed outside counseling.

when this came up in october, i connected that same school counselor again. i asked her if at anytime in her sessions with my daughter did she ever get a hint or felt like there was more to the daughter actions; and finally straight out asked if the counsel ever suspect emotional, physical or sexual abuse to be the cause of my daughter outbreaks. the counselor advised me that no she did not and if she had she not only would have brought it to my attentions but would have called cyfd herself.

I agree with Proserpina -- what are the qualifications of the school counselor? Normally they are NOT able to diagnose or treat children but can only guide them to proper classes and careers and such. Also the other issue is that it should NOT be on the shoulders of someone who doesn't see your child that often to determine counseling. YOU as the PARENT should have determined that something was wrong based on the actions of your "horrible" daughter who is a constant liar and thief. YOU should have done something about it. NOT state that because a school counselor (who saw your child HOW OFTEN and FOR HOW LONG) didn't see a problem there wasn't one.

maybe i did make mistakes as a parent, God knows i have been beating myself over it and searching the past for anything i could have done differently. i am not going to just stick my head in the sand as i have been accused of doing nor can i ignore the issues now.

Sadly though it has taken this much time.

for those who say i am handling this incorrectly and not acting correctly. i am still waiting for someone to tell me what action i SHOULD be taking.

Quite simply you either decide you believe your daughter COMPLETELY or you decide that she would be better off out of your house. YOU also need to keep your mouth shut about this situation and NOT question your children about it and let the counselor MEET WITH YOUR CHILD WITHOUT YOUR INTERFERENCE OR PARTICIPATION. Hands off.

My appreciation to caveman, and the others who are. the children ARE separated, the children ARE in counselling, and i AM going to talk to a lawyer this coming week. i never said the boy never lied or was a saint and i can not stress enough that i love and care for the girl.

Reread again. You have made your daughter the enemy. Does your child have a GAL? Did CYF open a case? Or is this a "voluntary" situation even though it deals with allegations of sexual abuse?

All i would like to know now is what is the normal procedures in cases like this?
After the police are done with their investigation and the report goes to the DA, what happens now?
Will the DA talk with cyfd?

Why would the DA talk with CYFD? It is a possibility. But CYFD records are normally confidential and can only be released with a court order.

Will they put the 12 year old girl on the stand?

Probably.

What are the actions i should be taking besides the counselling(done) and separating them (done) and getting a lawyer(done)

Counseling is NOT done. Counseling is barely beginning. The children should have DIFFERENT COUNSELORS. YOU should not be attending the counseling sessions of EITHER child. You should be sitting in the waiting room. YOu should not be questioning the counselor about the CONTENT of the counseling NOR should you be questioning the children. YOUR daughter should have a GAL appointed to represent HER WISHES and HER best interests.YOU need to decide if you either believe your daughter completely or you don't. If you do not, then you need to decide to let her be with people who do believe her completely and unconditionally which may mean out of YOUR home.

is there anything else i could have missed or should ask? and to whom?
plus if there is anyone from nm that can tell the laws in nm and make any suggestions on what i should be doing or asking?

Truthfully NO. You should not be in the middle. You need to be OUT of the investigation. You can cooperate (if your attorney advises it) but you better not be in the middle of it unless you want to risk facing charges.

and any other thing my ignorance has missed.

I could say something but the insulting seems to be up to you since you started it. Your attitude is going to do both of your children more harm than good. And if your daughter was raped, I really hope that you are unable to look yourself in the mirror. I may be what you called me (which by the way can get you banned if it were reported) but at least I have not raised either a pathological liar or a rapist. And yes he is a rapist if he stuck his penis in her mouth and forced her to have oral sex with him. That is a LEGAL definition of rape. Deal with that.

thank you all for your responses.

Really? ALL responses or just the ones that coddle you and say how right and perfect a person you are?

 

[mrsvain]

Out of interest, was the school counselor also a psychiatrist or psychologist?

Arent they all? or is my ignorance showing again. i assumed the school counselor has to have some kind of psychology degree but no i never thought to ask what it was. i figured the school had screened her properly before they hired her and did not feel like her credentials were questionable. All i know is that she is the school counselor who was helping my daughter throu a tough time.

 

[Proserpina]

once the investigation is over, and the investigating officer has written his report and put it in the computer, can i ask to see it? does it then become public record?

You'll certainly be made aware of the results. Are you asking if you/your son will have a chance to refute the report?

 

[Ohiogal]

I'm not sure I agree with the counseling part. If it were lil' bit lying and getting out of hand then it would have been a trip to the police department for the stealing (to learn what happens when people steal) and losing everything she cares about (such as personal items from room and friend privileges etc) until lying daughter got her act together (dont mind me i'm a tough love kinda gal ). But I do agree that if mom nipped her in the bud before she became an issue than she might not be here now. But unfortunately some parents dont seem to have the guts to kick their kids in the behinds. Doesnt always make them bad parents...but it DOES make them weenies. Unfortunately for OP she's now faced with the decision of how to handle the aftermath of her lack of action. I dont envy her position.
But if daughter was truly raped for all these years right under moms nose, then she's far more of a weenie than just putting up with an unruly daughter...she's a downright moron who yes, should lose the daughter as she doesnt have much right to call herself mom anymore.

Here is the problem -- MOM did NOTHING. Right now they are looking for counselors. She needed to be told about counseling and how it was good idea. She is lacking in the parenting department. I can agree with the tough love idea -- I really do -- however since this seems to be an ongoing thing because daughter is so "HORRIBLE" as OP refers to her, then quite frankly COUNSELING was necessary. If mom had stopped the hitting and beating on each other, and had nipped the lying and stealing when it started and gotten it stopped, counseling not an issue. But she didn't. So counseling should have happened before now.

Mom is not really parenting. The issue with the daughter being in the house is that it is NOT a healthy atmosphere for her. This child has alleged sexual abuse by a family member. MOM is all over the internet stating how horrible daughter is and that daughter is liar and that MOM doesn't believe child. That type of attitude is pervasive. Mom is not SAYING daughter is a liar but what do you want to bet that daughter has picked up on that idea? So IF daughter was raped by brother, she is surrounded by enemies -- which is NOT emotionally healthy.

If daughter was NOT raped by brother, then there is something very wrong with daughter and she needs more help than being in that house can give her. Either way, mom's home is NOT where she should be. Especially when mom is trying to prove the alleged perpetrator innocent.

 

[Ohiogal]

once the investigation is over, and the investigating officer has written his report and put it in the computer, can i ask to see it? does it then become public record?

No. CYFD reports and police investigations are NOT public record.

 

[mrsvain]

yes, really all the responses even yours which i find insulting and to be fair i dont think anyone here has coddled or said i was perfect or right. but i am okay with your opinions and your attitude that i am a horrible mother. i apologize for the insult i made to you but hadnt expected to be attacked as such. i have had time to reread and understand your opinions. i came online looking for the legal things i do not know, not for judgement or approval of my actions. i did spend a large amount trying to defend my words, but unfortuantly i do not have the grace and education that some have and it was not want i entended to do in the first place. my apologizes for straying and letting my emotions get the better of me.

i have never been in this situation and do not know what even the normal procedures would be. i will say again that i am NOT questioning the children; the questions that i had done was done in the perscence of the police or cyfd, whom do have an open case for this. the children do have separate counsel beings as they are in completely different towns and i do not attend the session, nor do i ask what was said during said sessions. the school counselor has seen and dealt with the issues that were brought up during my daughters 08-09 school year which was about the same time they started more frequently. i had no reason to think the school counselor would not be able to determine if there was a deeper issue going on being as that is what they are trained to do, look for signs, determine if there a problem and suggestion addt counseling if necessary. our school counselors do not help with proper classes and careers, becuase they have someone else in the schools that does that.

so bring back my questions
All i would like to know now is what is the normal procedures in cases like this?
After the police are done with their investigation and the report goes to the DA, what happens now?
Will the DA talk with cyfd?
Will they put the 12 year old girl on the stand?
What are the actions i should be taking besides the counselling(done) and separating them (done) and getting a lawyer(done)
is there anything else i could have missed or should ask? and to whom?
plus if there is anyone from nm that can tell the laws in nm and make any suggestions on what i should be doing or asking?
and any other thing my ignorance has missed.

thank you all for your responses. (yes all of you)

 

[mrsvain]

You'll certainly be made aware of the results. Are you asking if you/your son will have a chance to refute the report?

not at all. since you said everything hinges on the outcome of the investigation. and the officer told me he was done, that was all i was wondering. if i get a copy or can i get a copy of the report. do i have to wait until after the da looks at it or is it still confidential.

no more then that.

 

[Ohiogal]

Arent they all? or is my ignorance showing again. i assumed the school counselor has to have some kind of psychology degree but no i never thought to ask what it was. i figured the school had screened her properly before they hired her and did not feel like her credentials were questionable. All i know is that she is the school counselor who was helping my daughter throu a tough time.

A school counselor may not have more than an education degree with some counseling credits. They may be educational counselors and NOT psychiatrists or psychologists. They are mandated reporters but that does not mean they are proprly trained to actually treat children.