daughter accuses son of sexual abuse

[Ohiogal]

yes, really all the responses even yours which i find insulting

Really? YOU are the one who was outright insulting or did you forget what insult you threw at me?

and to be fair i dont think anyone here has coddled or said i was perfect or right. but i am okay with your opinions and your attitude that i am a horrible mother.

I do think that you have acted WRONGLY.

i apologize for the insult i made to you but hadnt expected to be attacked as such.

I didn't attack you. I attacked your misconceptions and your presentation of the facts.

i have had time to reread and understand your opinions. i came online looking for the legal things i do not know, not for judgement or approval of my actions.

A court is NOT going to care why you discussed or tried to persuade your daughter that your son was innocent or anything of that nature if it APPEARS that is what happened. CYFD is not going to care that your daughter is a liar and a thief if they believe you are contributing to your daughter's issues due to your disbelief of her. They can -- and should -- remove her from your custody and if the situation doesn't correct, can move to have your parental rights terminated.

i did spend a large amount trying to defend my words, but unfortuantly i do not have the grace and education that some have and it was not want i entended to do in the first place.

You managed to insult me outright. I can name call with the best of them and yet I didn't come back and say what names I could have done towards you.

i have never been in this situation and do not know what even the normal procedures would be. i will say again that i am NOT questioning the children; the questions that i had done was done in the perscence of the police or cyfd, whom do have an open case for this.

So there is an open court case? Was a finding of abuse made? Was your DAUGHTER appointed a GAL?

the children do have separate counsel beings as they are in completely different towns and i do not attend the session, nor do i ask what was said during said sessions.

Good.

the school counselor has seen and dealt with the issues that were brought up during my daughters 08-09 school year which was about the same time they started more frequently. i had no reason to think the school counselor would not be able to determine if there was a deeper issue going on being as that is what they are trained to do, look for signs, determine if there a problem and suggestion addt counseling if necessary.

You think that is what they are trained to do. MAYBE this school counselor is a licensed therapist -- maybe a psychiatrist or psychologist but maybe not.

our school counselors do not help with proper classes and careers, becuase they have someone else in the schools that does that.

What is the background of the school counselors however?

so bring back my questions
All i would like to know now is what is the normal procedures in cases like this?
After the police are done with their investigation and the report goes to the DA, what happens now? Will the DA talk with cyfd?
Will they put the 12 year old girl on the stand?
What are the actions i should be taking besides the counselling(done) and separating them (done) and getting a lawyer(done)
is there anything else i could have missed or should ask? and to whom?
plus if there is anyone from nm that can tell the laws in nm and make any suggestions on what i should be doing or asking?
and any other thing my ignorance has missed.

Now I answered all of those questions. In my last post.

thank you all for your responses. (yes all of you)

You are welcome.

 

[mrsvain]

Really? YOU are the one who was outright insulting or did you forget what insult you threw at me?

yes, i admitted that was inappropriate and apologized. i also edited my last post saying i am sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me. again, it was wrong and i am sorry.

I didn't attack you. I attacked your misconceptions and your presentation of the facts.

yes, my presentation of the facts were done badly, i should have just asked my questions and not anything else.

A court is NOT going to care why you discussed or tried to persuade your daughter that your son was innocent or anything of that nature if it APPEARS that is what happened. CYFD is not going to care that your daughter is a liar and a thief if they believe you are contributing to your daughter's issues due to your disbelief of her. They can -- and should -- remove her from your custody and if the situation doesn't correct, can move to have your parental rights terminated.

i am not trying to persuade my daughter of anything . cyfd is involved and i am currently working with them for the best of the family. they know of the lying and stealing issues. they were the ones who decided that she is to remain in the home.

You managed to insult me outright. I can name call with the best of them and yet I didn't come back and say what names I could have done towards you.

again my apologizes and you have more then made your opinion of me more then clear, thank you

So there is an open court case? Was a finding of abuse made? Was your DAUGHTER appointed a GAL?

although the case is still open and under investigation with cyfd, they are waiting the results from the police investigation. i do not think my daughter has a GAL yet, but i will ask during our next session. thank you

You think that is what they are trained to do. MAYBE this school counselor is a licensed therapist -- maybe a psychiatrist or psychologist but maybe not.What is the background of the school counselors however?

answered already in my last post, but i will say again, i did not have any reason to think that she would be unable to determine if there was a deeper issue going on. i assumed that the school had known the counselors qualifications before appointing her and never thought to ask what her credentials were. i was just concerned with what she was saying was going on with my daughter at that time.

 

[DV5855]

Whew!

You are serioursly sick and need help.

 

[Proserpina]

You are serioursly sick and need help.

What exactly is your purpose here?

 

[RRevak]

Here is the problem -- MOM did NOTHING. Right now they are looking for counselors. She needed to be told about counseling and how it was good idea. She is lacking in the parenting department. I can agree with the tough love idea -- I really do -- however since this seems to be an ongoing thing because daughter is so "HORRIBLE" as OP refers to her, then quite frankly COUNSELING was necessary. If mom had stopped the hitting and beating on each other, and had nipped the lying and stealing when it started and gotten it stopped, counseling not an issue. But she didn't. So counseling should have happened before now.

Mom is not really parenting. The issue with the daughter being in the house is that it is NOT a healthy atmosphere for her. This child has alleged sexual abuse by a family member. MOM is all over the internet stating how horrible daughter is and that daughter is liar and that MOM doesn't believe child. That type of attitude is pervasive. Mom is not SAYING daughter is a liar but what do you want to bet that daughter has picked up on that idea? So IF daughter was raped by brother, she is surrounded by enemies -- which is NOT emotionally healthy.

If daughter was NOT raped by brother, then there is something very wrong with daughter and she needs more help than being in that house can give her. Either way, mom's home is NOT where she should be. Especially when mom is trying to prove the alleged perpetrator innocent.

THATS where we are in complete agreement. At this point she needs to be either with another family member or some form of third party that is not OP's house. Since OP seems to be conflicted as to the guilt or innocence of both parties than whether she likes it or not, no matter how much she wants to be as objective as she can, sub-consciously thats just not going to be possible and whether she realizes it or not she's going to take it out on the daughter. If indeed she has been raped then this could essentially be the straw that breaks her proverbial back. She could shut down forever and not even counseling would bring her back psychologically.
OP, is there anywhere else your daughter can stay until this is over?

 

[mrsvain]

to answer your question, yes there is but cyfd and the police has both determined that she is safe and sound in my care, thank you

i dont know why everyone is so upset with me. i have tried to be a good parent but i know and own up to making mistakes. yes i am torn between my two children but have willingly separated them, in fact it was me who told them i would remove one or the other. everyone agreed with and are satisfied with it should be the boy and the girl should stay home.

that being said, i am not accusing anyone just yet as i dont have all the answers which are NOT being ask by me to either children. I have thought about both situations long and hard, have have looked at evidance on both parts and questioned/answered in both childrens defense and dont understand why i am instantly a bad person because i addressed the issue or was open to the thought that what if she is wrong and the boy is right (or however you want to verb it).

do i not have an obligation to protect the boy just as much as the girl?
because i was able to say look at the evidence i did have (yes, i know i dont have it all) and wanted more answers.
all i was trying to find out is a way i should go about that also. i mistakeningly thought that lawyers (being a legal advise site) would remain objective and provide me with suggestions on how to figure that out, with actions i need in order to find out the truth in both cases in a way that would be the least harmful for either children.
am i a bad parent for wanting to make sure that the evidence against my son was true and factual as well as to make sure he got fair and unbias treatment? (as this forum has proven is not likely to happen)
and nothing got left out or overlooked?
would that also not help the girl if found against him?
And not knowing how to do that, could someone provide me with the answers to make sure i am not missing anything crutial as i have no idea how these cases are processed.

i understand what everyone has said about the girl, and i agree with most of it. this is serious and has been taken as such. of course i would love to believe this did not happen to her, since it would be the least damaging to the girl more importantly but i am not denying that there is a possiblity that this has happened either nor am i denying that besides this allegation there are deeper issues on hand that will be addressed.

i just needed some direction on both possiblities. i had questions on what actions would be needed to determine that.

sorry, guess my emotions are getting in the way again. again, i bring back the questions i would like answered (yes i know Ohiogal has answered, but would like some other opinions on them also)

Quote:
so bring back my questions
All i would like to know now is what is the normal procedures in cases like this?
After the police are done with their investigation and the report goes to the DA, what happens now? Will the DA talk with cyfd?
Will they put the 12 year old girl on the stand?
What are the actions i should be taking besides the counselling(done) and separating them (done) and getting a lawyer(done)
is there anything else i could have missed or should ask? and to whom?
plus if there is anyone from nm that can tell the laws in nm and make any suggestions on what i should be doing or asking?
and any other thing my ignorance has missed.

thank you for your response.

 

[Ohiogal]

You are missing the point. We know you want your children with you and you voluntarily separated them. HOWEVER RRevak stated it as did I. Your daughter needs surrounded by people who are NOT questioning her (be it by asking questions or just by doubting her "story") -- you cannot give that to her. You also cannot give her your undivided support. You have two children. Neither should be with you due to these allegations. Not at this point. Not until the truth is determined.

 

[cbg]

Just to be clear, it is perfectly appropriate for a school counselor to be trained in educational counseling and not be a psychologist or psychiatrist. 95% of what a school counselor deals with requires educational counseling training and does not require that the counselor be a licensed therapist. There frankly is no reason to assume that a school counselor WILL be a licensed therapist.

 

[Ohiogal]

Just to be clear, it is perfectly appropriate for a school counselor to be trained in educational counseling and not be a psychologist or psychiatrist. 95% of what a school counselor deals with requires educational counseling training and does not require that the counselor be a licensed therapist. There frankly is no reason to assume that a school counselor WILL be a licensed therapist.

HOWEVER those counselors are not trained to treat sexual abuse and other issues.

 

[cbg]

Exactly. Which is why I am saying that one shouldn't assume that a school counselor would be a licensed therapist.

Educational counseling is an entirely different type of counseling which requires different training. A school counselor needs to be trained in educational counseling, which does NOT include treating sexual abuse. A school counselor does NOT need to be trained in treating sexual abuse.

 

[mrsvain]

your responses have been noted and appreciated thank you.

anyone else have any information?

i dont know why everyone is so upset with me. i have tried to be a good parent but i know and own up to making mistakes. yes i am torn between my two children but have willingly separated them, in fact it was me who told them i would remove one or the other. everyone agreed with and are satisfied with it should be the boy and the girl should stay home.

that being said, i am not accusing anyone just yet as i dont have all the answers which are NOT being ask by me to either children. I have thought about both situations long and hard, have have looked at evidance on both parts and questioned/answered in both childrens defense and dont understand why i am instantly a bad person because i addressed the issue or was open to the thought that what if she is wrong and the boy is right (or however you want to verb it).

do i not have an obligation to protect the boy just as much as the girl?
because i was able to say look at the evidence i did have (yes, i know i dont have it all) and wanted more answers.
all i was trying to find out is a way i should go about that also. i mistakeningly thought that lawyers (being a legal advise site) would remain objective and provide me with suggestions on how to figure that out, with actions i need in order to find out the truth in both cases in a way that would be the least harmful for either children.
am i a bad parent for wanting to make sure that the evidence against my son was true and factual as well as to make sure he got fair and unbias treatment? (as this forum has proven is not likely to happen)
and nothing got left out or overlooked?
would that also not help the girl if found against him?
And not knowing how to do that, could someone provide me with the answers to make sure i am not missing anything crutial as i have no idea how these cases are processed.

i understand what everyone has said about the girl, and i agree with most of it. this is serious and has been taken as such. of course i would love to believe this did not happen to her, since it would be the least damaging to the girl more importantly but i am not denying that there is a possiblity that this has happened either nor am i denying that besides this allegation there are deeper issues on hand that will be addressed.

i just needed some direction on both possiblities. i had questions on what actions would be needed to determine that.

sorry, guess my emotions are getting in the way again. again, i bring back the questions i would like answered (yes i know Ohiogal has answered, but would like some other opinions on them also)

Quote:
so bring back my questions
All i would like to know now is what is the normal procedures in cases like this?
After the police are done with their investigation and the report goes to the DA, what happens now? Will the DA talk with cyfd?
Will they put the 12 year old girl on the stand?
What are the actions i should be taking besides the counselling(done) and separating them (done) and getting a lawyer(done)
is there anything else i could have missed or should ask? and to whom?
plus if there is anyone from nm that can tell the laws in nm and make any suggestions on what i should be doing or asking?
and any other thing my ignorance has missed.

thank you for your response.

 

[msmom22000]

ill was not convinced. when i questioned my daughter why she did not yell or scream or ifight back, she said she did kinda of fight him off and that she was scared of her brother hitting her. i told her that does not make sense, if she faught him surely i would have heard. i am a very light sleeper and many things wake me up during the night. plus that if she was so scared of her brother then why did she fight and yell and tell and hit him for anything else. she had nothing to say. once i asked her how in the world did he get you to open your mouth in the first place, and she hemmed and haaad finally mumbling something about just playing along with it. the 5 inch bruises she had on either side of her thigh--well when asked about it, the girl says she has no idea how they got there or what my son did to her because she slept through it all and never woke up

This is enough reason for everyone to say your daughter should be removed. HOW DARE YOU!!! If she is telling the truth, you've done extreme damage just with that. I'll say it again. HOW DARE YOU!!!!
You are not a counselor. You are a mom. Deal with the everyday things. Take her to counseling...at least a couple times a week, if possible. Let them ask the questions. You be a mom and protect your child...whether it's from her brother, or herself.

 

[Proserpina]

do i not have an obligation to protect the boy just as much as the girl?

Think about this for a second. Your son may need protection against false allegations. Your daughter, however, may need protection FROM AN ABUSER.

She was in need a bit more protection, don't you think?

am i a bad parent for wanting to make sure that the evidence against my son was true and factual as well as to make sure he got fair and unbias treatment?

If you had treated them both the same I doubt this thread would have ended up being 3 pages long. It's YOUR bias which worries the rest of us.

 

[Proserpina]

when i questioned my daughter why she did not yell or scream or ifight back, she said she did kinda of fight him off and that she was scared of her brother hitting her. i told her that does not make sense, if she faught him surely i would have heard. i am a very light sleeper and many things wake me up during the night. plus that if she was so scared of her brother then why did she fight and yell and tell and hit him for anything else.

Can't you see what you did here?! She couldn't win!!!!! She couldn't answer either way without being treated as the guilty party.

she had nothing to say. once i asked her how in the world did he get you to open your mouth in the first place, and she hemmed and haaad finally mumbling something about just playing along with it. the 5 inch bruises she had on either side of her thigh--well when asked about it, the girl says she has no idea how they got there or what my son did to her because she slept through it all and never woke up

I don't blame her - you treated her like a criminal.

 

[PQN]

lies upon lies

OP didn't come off the best in her posts. But, maybe biased by my own experiences, I see a mom who has been blindsided by this. Her daughter, who just recently told and recanted a pretty big lie about her mother beating her, is stating that her brother raped her. I think OP understands that her family life as she knew it is over. Either her son raped her daughter or her daughter made serious false allegations against her son. It sounds like her gut is telling her to believe her son -- the question is why? because she truly feels that it didn't happen? or because her mind is rejecting the horror of what did happen?

OP, my daughter made false allegations against my son. She was a prolific liar and we had her in counseling and she had two psychiatric hospitalizations by that point. I didn't believe her, in her accusation her 2 year old brother raped her when she was 7 and had been raping her since she was 5 (he was a newborn and they didn't live together). I had the benefit of "proof" in that it was impossible that the baby got out of the crib and forced her to do anything. It came to light during continued counseling that she had been raped in her foster home (we adopted her when she was 6). She was scared that the rapist would find her if she told on him so she blamed her brother. She also stated that she picked that brother because she didn't like babies and thought she could get him removed from the house. My daughter has serious mental illnesses. The intensity level of the lying suggests that your daughter needs competent, long term care by mental health professionals -- either to help her deal with being raped or to find out the basis for her lying -- or both.

You haven't mentioned a dad. Is it possible that you had a friend who did this to her? That is the 3rd possibility, that she was raped but is blaming the wrong person because of fear, etc. (DO NOT question her about it, just think who you allowed around your children near the 08-09 school year.)

IMHO you have to walk both sides of the path. When you are with your daughter, you need to support her 100%. With our daughter, even though the allegations were clearly false, we felt that they pointed to a deep fear inside her. We installed keypad locks on the bedroom doors (so she could lock people out NOT for us to lock her in) and an alarm on her door. That way she knew only her and her parents (us) had the code to her room so none of her siblings could get in her room while she was sleeping. The alarm also reassured her that even if someone broke the lock, the alarm would wake her up and bring us running. Definitely look for a good, experience therapist. Your local children's psych hospital might have some good recommendations. If your daughter talks about wanting to be dead, please take her seriously and get her to the ER for a psych eval. Many victims of sexual abuse try suicide. Many pathological liars try to up-the-ante and get more attention with a suicide attempt. Either way, she would need intensive help ASAP if she threatens to hurt herself.

Listen to CPS. Do what you are told. Stay out of the investigation. Accept that you cannot control what happens.