daughter accuses son of sexual abuse

[mrsvain]

Actually we all understand perfectly. You don't understand how this happened, so instead you deny it happened and call your daughter a liar. You make excuses where you should be taking action. You recieved advice. Get both of your children into counseling NOW. As for legal advice, hire your little sexual predator a lawyer and don't let him near his sister ever again.

I don't know what advice you came here looking for. Did you want us to tell you that you're right, your daughter is likely lying and it's cool to just throw her under a bus so you can bring your son home? No one is going to tell you that. I agree with that you don't belong having either of your children in your care, most especially your daughter. She needs someone who will actually care for her and it doesn't sound like you're that person.

wow! well, thank you for your response. i didnt think i was denying it but apparently you all think differently. And please let me still the assumption that i called my daughter a liar about this. all i was trying to explain is that she has said things in the past and even about this case that are not true, so therefore ARE lies. what else would you call it. but i did not ever say anything to her about lying about her brother.

Again i am being told i am making excuses where i should be taking action. Can someone tell me what excuses i am making and i am dying for anyone to tell me what actions I should be making.

that is the advice i came here looking for. how can i be right when i never said one or the other did it? can you tell me what questions i should have asked the children, the girl and the boy since everyone is saying i am not doing her right. What questions would you have ask if your daughter came up and said this? Would you not had wanted some kind of evidence or proof or just an explanation? Where did i ever say that i wanted to get rid of the girl to bring the boy home?

and i repeat, she is somewhere safe and with people who love and care for her. thank you for questioning my parenting skills. let me assure you that cyfd feels that i am a strong and safe and good parent for my children.

 

[mrsvain]

Actually we all understand perfectly. You don't understand how this happened, so instead you deny it happened and call your daughter a liar. You make excuses where you should be taking action. You recieved advice. Get both of your children into counseling NOW. As for legal advice, hire your little sexual predator a lawyer and don't let him near his sister ever again.

I don't know what advice you came here looking for. Did you want us to tell you that you're right, your daughter is likely lying and it's cool to just throw her under a bus so you can bring your son home? No one is going to tell you that. I agree with that you don't belong having either of your children in your care, most especially your daughter. She needs someone who will actually care for her and it doesn't sound like you're that person.

oh and just to say again, they are in counselling. right now. and we are currently looking into getting a permanant cousellor to continue after this.

 

[CavemanLawyer]

Its already been said but either your daughter alone has a serious issue causing her to make this up or both of your children have serious issues and the abuse is real. Either way, you need to be careful not to alienate either of them. I am certain that the detective assigned to the case told you to at least not talk to her about the allegations, and probably told you to not talk to either of them about it. I would definitely take this advice seriously. Beyond compromising the criminal case if the allegations are true, you can seriously mess up your relationship with your children by grilling either one of them about this.

I worked in sex crimes as a prosecutor for some years. I would say that probably well more than half of the time that there was an allegations within the home, one or the other parent did not believe it regardless of the evidence. Its classic denial, and its perfectly natural. Often the child making the allegations became an outcast and sometimes THEY got removed from the home pending the investigation rather than the alleged perpetrator. There were a handful of times where I was later able to present to that parent fairly good evidence that the abuse was real. (DNA, photos, medical findings, or a confession.) I can't tell you how remorseful those parents were for picking the wrong side. The best way to handle it is to not take a side at all until the investigation is complete.

I can also tell you that, as hard as it is to believe, these things do happen right under parents' noses even over a course of years. When the abuse starts happening at a young age the victim literally does not recognize that the abuse is wrong or abnormal. It is just a way of life and often they figure everyone's family is like that. Even though they are not consenting to the abuse, they don't fight back and really do take it to heart when the perpetrator warns them no to tell anyone. I had one child victim who was literally shocked when I told her that, "no everyone's father doesn't have sex with his daughter." She was 12 years old and had been abused all of her life. This type of stuff totally messes up the person when it happens. It is also very common for the victim and perpetrator to maintain perfectly normal family relationships in public despite the abuse. Brothers and sisters still play and fight as normal even though they share that deep secret.

 

[mrsvain]

thank you cavemanlawyer, for that. what you said has made a lot of sense to me.

please believe when i say that is what i am trying so hard not to do, i really dont want my daughter to be an outcast. and i am trying NOT to pick any sides until the investigation is over. i dont want to find out later that i was wrong and by being so hurt whichever innocent child. yes, it is hard to realize one of your children are seriously messed up when i thought everything was fine. i feel like i should have seen some kind of warning sign that i could have caught early enough to help that child. and besides counselling i cant think of what else would help. i want so much for all my children to be "normal" and have a healthy childhood.

i feel so helpless and things are out of my control. i only wish i could help do something but i can see by this forum that whatever i would try would only harm more then help. i would; however; believe it if there was only any kind of evidence at all. (except for the tube sock they blue lighted and has some kind of dna, still waiting on the results; they blue lighted her sheets and room and i am guessing it came up clean because they didnt take it, is that a safe assumption?) and that is hard for me to understand. is there any way i can find evidence of this?should there not have been some kind of evidence he was in her room, skin, hair, semen anything?

i hear and understand what you have said and will process it throughly thank you so much.

is it possible for the investagating officer to complete his investigation without the evidence of the tube sock and what happens next. he told me he will give the report to the DA, and they will let me know. can you tell me anything about that process? (yes, i am going to talk to a lawyer next week and the children are in counselling) i dont even have a clue on the regular process in these cases. and we live in a small town and heard and witness several cases that were handled incorrectly by our small law force. i just want to make sure all the bases have and were covered correctly but dont have a clue what those bases even are. do you have any suggestions on what i should ask as the parent? what actions should i take?

i so appreciate your response. thank you thank you and God bless you.

 

[outonbail]

How can anyone have already decided the son is guilty and a sexual predator, without having any more information than what the OP has posted?

If I believe everything the OP has stated, I would say the son is the victim here. However, I can’t start calling the daughter a little manipulative lying brat, because the fact is that we don’t know now do we?

I will say this,,, when you have a child that you know steals cookies out of the cookie jar at every available opportunity, then one day you come home to find cookies missing, your first thoughts naturally go to the child who has a track record of stealing cookies.

So when they OP’s post reads like she is leaning more toward the daughter lying than the son committing such an act, it is understandable. Maybe this doesn’t make her right and maybe it is not the ideal way to look at the situation, but it would be a natural reaction for a parent to question the credibility of the child who frequently lies and enjoys the fantasy world her lies bring to her

The daughter claiming that she slept through the entire incident where she was bruised is one example of why she is not credible. If she slept through her brother molesting her, how would she even know it happened or that it was her brother? She couldn’t, so she is either lying or assuming with that statement.

I also don’t believe that if the brother has been sneaking into her room for eight years to assault/molest her, that he would not have gone further than oral sex. As she grew older and he continued to get away with abusing her, he would have made intercourse a part of his assault. So have the doctors who examined her, reported that physical evidence exists to support her claims of abuse or at least signs of sexual activity?

If not, I wouldn’t be leaning toward the son being guilty either.

The subject of children being assaulted, abused, or molested is one which stirs up a lot of emotionally driven opinions. After all, the fact that it even occurs is repulsive and beyond comprehension to those who have never been victimized or close to someone who has.

If I try to relate sexual abuse or the possibility of this occurring to my own childhood, I too find it impossible if the parents were doing their job even marginally well. Because there is no way such a thing could have gotten past my mother. I don’t know how she did it, but my mother had a sense that never failed her. There was no lying or trying to pull the wool over my mothers eyes, so I could just as easily blame the OP and tell her she failed miserably as a mother. But it would be nothing more than my opinion. This wouldn’t make it true and my opinion is just that, my opinion. But it is redundant to voice it without knowing all the facts.

The OP is not here asking everyone to pick who they believe is telling the truth, she is here asking how she can arrive at the truth without doing any more harm to her children.

If her daughters allegations turn out to be true, she will have plenty of time ahead of her where she can beat up on herself over the fact that such an unimaginable thing went on for eight years, right under her nose and that she didn’t know. But for now, placing blame is certainly inappropriate, especially on our part.

 

[mrsvain]

outonbail, thank you, thank you, thank you and God bless you. you have put into words what i was trying to say. and to answer your questions

So have the doctors who examined her, reported that physical evidence exists to support her claims of abuse or at least signs of sexual activity?

she was examined by the sane nurse, pictures were taken of the bruises but the internal part of the exam, my daughter refused. cyfd said she actually got very upset; crying uncontrolably when asked to do that part of the sane procedure and they could not get her to calm down for a while and decided not to force the issue. we have a follow exam on wednesday, which if possible i want that exam completed. so it remains to be seen yet, but my daughter has said he never raped her or inserted anything in that part of her.

The OP is not here asking everyone to pick who they believe is telling the truth, she is here asking how she can arrive at the truth without doing any more harm to her children.

you said this so much better then i did and is exactly what i am hoping for.

 

[CavemanLawyer]

i would; however; believe it if there was only any kind of evidence at all. (except for the tube sock they blue lighted and has some kind of dna, still waiting on the results; they blue lighted her sheets and room and i am guessing it came up clean because they didnt take it, is that a safe assumption?) and that is hard for me to understand. is there any way i can find evidence of this?should there not have been some kind of evidence he was in her room, skin, hair, semen anything?

From an investigative standpoint there are two different sources of DNA, DNA from the skin cells (includes hair) and DNA from bodily fluids (saliva, semen, or vaginal discharge.) When dealing with abuse within the family DNA from skin cells is useless. If you swab for skin cells you are likely to find everyone's DNA everywhere. About the only thing it proves is who lives in the house. So investigations like this focus on bodily fluids and the presumptive test for this is to use the black light. If a stain fluoresces then it is usually a bodily fluid but still may or may not contain enough DNA to be useful. But it is seized and tested like with the sock in this case. If they didn't seize any bedding then no presumptive bodily fluids were found but this doesn't rule abuse out of course. If the sheets were washed then any stains were almost surely washed away and any DNA destroyed. Furthermore, a perpetrator is not always going to ejaculate during abuse so there might not be any bodily fluids left behind.

There may be DNA from his sperm cell found on the sock. If this is all that is found then in my opinion it doesn't mean much since its hardly uncommon for a young boy to experiment with masturbation. Even though he denied this, its also hardly uncommon for a young boy to be too embarrassed to admit this when asked by his parent. What the investigators are really looking for with the sock is a mixture of his and her DNA. That would be pretty compelling evidence. It would also be more compelling if your daughter said she saw him using the sock. Apparently she didn't disclose anything about that.

The fact of the matter is that in the vast majority of cases of child abuse no real evidence is ever found and all that the case is based on is the testimony of the victim. It is possible for DNA to remain intact for even long periods of time, but not so much under normal living environments. Bedding and clothing get washed and you're not going to find anything unless the stains were left shortly before the items are collected.

The SANE likely will not answer any questions either. Trauma to the vagina or anus heals remarkably fast in anyone, and in particular children. You've generally got a window of no more than 72 hours to find the injury, and often it disappears entirely in a matter of just several hours. The same is true for any DNA obtained from a swabbing of the vagina. Unless the victim discloses that the last abuse happened within 72 hours, they usually don't even bother doing a vaginal swab. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, depending on the study you go by, less than 99%-96% cases of reported abuse have medical findings. There are also many many cases of undisputed abuse (victim impregnated and paternity linked to perpetrator) where there were still no medical findings whatsoever of the abuse.

is it possible for the investagating officer to complete his investigation without the evidence of the tube sock and what happens next. he told me he will give the report to the DA, and they will let me know. can you tell me anything about that process?

Different counties will have a different process based on, among other things, the volume of these types of cases they deal with. Many counties have a team (doctors, CPS, police, and district attorneys) who meet to review pending investigations before charges are accepted or declined. The investigation can take many months sometimes. The DA may or may not go forward before the results of the DNA test come back. DNA testing is not like on CSI where they get the results in between the two commercial breaks. DNA testing typically takes at least 6 months and up to one year. It depends on what lab the police agency uses and their backlog. If a private lab is used it is possible to have a very quick turn around. It just depends.

 

[Proserpina]

How can anyone have already decided the son is guilty and a sexual predator, without having any more information than what the OP has posted?

Well....

If I believe everything the OP has stated, I would say the son is the victim here. However, I can’t start calling the daughter a little manipulative lying brat, because the fact is that we don’t know now do we?

Probably from the same instincts - but you're right, yes. We don't know. The fact remains - both of these children need to be in SERIOUS therapy.

I will say this,,, when you have a child that you know steals cookies out of the cookie jar at every available opportunity, then one day you come home to find cookies missing, your first thoughts naturally go to the child who has a track record of stealing cookies.

But if the child is accused of grand theft auto it would be foolish to assume the same thing, surely? While I understand what you're saying, you're comparing apples to moldy eggs.

So when they OP’s post reads like she is leaning more toward the daughter lying than the son committing such an act, it is understandable. Maybe this doesn’t make her right and maybe it is not the ideal way to look at the situation, but it would be a natural reaction for a parent to question the credibility of the child who frequently lies and enjoys the fantasy world her lies bring to her

ALL children lie. I do not believe for one instant that the son never lies...it's the nature of posts and that one child is obviously being given far more benefit of the doubt than the other, which is concerning.

The daughter claiming that she slept through the entire incident where she was bruised is one example of why she is not credible. If she slept through her brother molesting her, how would she even know it happened or that it was her brother? She couldn’t, so she is either lying or assuming with that statement.

There are proven cases of this exact same thing happening. It cannot be discounted.

I also don’t believe that if the brother has been sneaking into her room for eight years to assault/molest her, that he would not have gone further than oral sex. As she grew older and he continued to get away with abusing her, he would have made intercourse a part of his assault. So have the doctors who examined her, reported that physical evidence exists to support her claims of abuse or at least signs of sexual activity?

This is a false assumption. You may be astonished at the lengths people will go to protect themselves....it's NOT unheard of (or even uncommon) for there to be no actual intercourse during a long period of sexual abuse.

.

The subject of children being assaulted, abused, or molested is one which stirs up a lot of emotionally driven opinions. After all, the fact that it even occurs is repulsive and beyond comprehension to those who have never been victimized or close to someone who has.

Again you're absolutely right.

The OP is not here asking everyone to pick who they believe is telling the truth, she is here asking how she can arrive at the truth without doing any more harm to her children.

About which she has been advised

(Attorney for son, removal of daughter from the house in the interim, counseling for ALL concerned).

If her daughters allegations turn out to be true, she will have plenty of time ahead of her where she can beat up on herself over the fact that such an unimaginable thing went on for eight years, right under her nose and that she didn’t know. But for now, placing blame is certainly inappropriate, especially on our part.

OK, yes, I can agree with that too - but having said that OP does have to understand that whichever child is being truthful, both have severe issues which need to be addressed and for which OP must accept at least some responsibility.

Sound fair?

 

[outonbail]

OK, yes, I can agree with that too - but having said that OP does have to understand that whichever child is being truthful, both have severe issues which need to be addressed and for which OP must accept at least some responsibility.

Sound fair?

Absolutely.

 

[RRevak]

How can anyone have already decided the son is guilty and a sexual predator, without having any more information than what the OP has posted?

If I believe everything the OP has stated, I would say the son is the victim here. However, I can’t start calling the daughter a little manipulative lying brat, because the fact is that we don’t know now do we?

I will say this,,, when you have a child that you know steals cookies out of the cookie jar at every available opportunity, then one day you come home to find cookies missing, your first thoughts naturally go to the child who has a track record of stealing cookies.

So when they OP’s post reads like she is leaning more toward the daughter lying than the son committing such an act, it is understandable. Maybe this doesn’t make her right and maybe it is not the ideal way to look at the situation, but it would be a natural reaction for a parent to question the credibility of the child who frequently lies and enjoys the fantasy world her lies bring to her

The daughter claiming that she slept through the entire incident where she was bruised is one example of why she is not credible. If she slept through her brother molesting her, how would she even know it happened or that it was her brother? She couldn’t, so she is either lying or assuming with that statement.

I also don’t believe that if the brother has been sneaking into her room for eight years to assault/molest her, that he would not have gone further than oral sex. As she grew older and he continued to get away with abusing her, he would have made intercourse a part of his assault. So have the doctors who examined her, reported that physical evidence exists to support her claims of abuse or at least signs of sexual activity?

If not, I wouldn’t be leaning toward the son being guilty either.

The subject of children being assaulted, abused, or molested is one which stirs up a lot of emotionally driven opinions. After all, the fact that it even occurs is repulsive and beyond comprehension to those who have never been victimized or close to someone who has.

If I try to relate sexual abuse or the possibility of this occurring to my own childhood, I too find it impossible if the parents were doing their job even marginally well. Because there is no way such a thing could have gotten past my mother. I don’t know how she did it, but my mother had a sense that never failed her. There was no lying or trying to pull the wool over my mothers eyes, so I could just as easily blame the OP and tell her she failed miserably as a mother. But it would be nothing more than my opinion. This wouldn’t make it true and my opinion is just that, my opinion. But it is redundant to voice it without knowing all the facts.

The OP is not here asking everyone to pick who they believe is telling the truth, she is here asking how she can arrive at the truth without doing any more harm to her children.

If her daughters allegations turn out to be true, she will have plenty of time ahead of her where she can beat up on herself over the fact that such an unimaginable thing went on for eight years, right under her nose and that she didn’t know. But for now, placing blame is certainly inappropriate, especially on our part.

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you!
Guys, lets look at the facts here...the ONLY facts we really have. The daughter (as outlined by mom) has a history of repeated lying and not just small lies either. So this can either be a situation where she has taken that lying to a whole NEW level and is now reveling in the brand new attention and fuss thats being made on her account...OR the repeated lying is a PRODUCT of the long years of abuse. Everyone's right in that either way BOTH children need to be in some serious counseling to work through this ordeal. But other than that we have NO facts or evidence that says the brother actually did anything. Before we play judge, jury, and executioner we should step back for a sec and look at what small amount of info we have which at this point really isnt anything at all. Just saying guys before we go off and tell her she deserves the bad mother of the year award


Now, all the moms and dads here need to stop for a sec and take a minute to ask yourselves how inclined you would be to believe a child that you KNOW has a history of lying and being just generally a bad kid? Personally, even I think I might take a step back for a sec and wonder...but that question would NEVER be made outloud.

 

[Proserpina]

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you!
Guys, lets look at the facts here...the ONLY facts we really have. The daughter (as outlined by mom) has a history of repeated lying and not just small lies either. So this can either be a situation where she has taken that lying to a whole NEW level and is now reveling in the brand new attention and fuss thats being made on her account...OR the repeated lying is a PRODUCT of the long years of abuse. Everyone's right in that either way BOTH children need to be in some serious counseling to work through this ordeal. But other than that we have NO facts or evidence that says the brother actually did anything. Before we play judge, jury, and executioner we should step back for a sec and look at what small amount of info we have which at this point really isnt anything at all. Just saying guys before we go off and tell her she deserves the bad mother of the year award


Now, all the moms and dads here need to stop for a sec and take a minute to ask yourselves how inclined you would be to believe a child that you KNOW has a history of lying and being just generally a bad kid? Personally, even I think I might take a step back for a sec and wonder...but that question would NEVER be made outloud.

When it has been admitted that the other child does get physical with the complainant (which has been labeled as "usual stuff", more or less - a term I find less than comforting)? I'd be suspicious of both of 'em. But I'd be extremely concerned that one of my kids is obviously lying about something incredibly serious. And I'd have them separated until the matter was investigated.

 

[Ohiogal]

d*mn you really are a b*tch arent you

Yes I am. And I am also honest. Its better than being a stupid self centered woman who refuses to address issues that have hurt her children -- your daughter should have been in counseling LONG AGO. I also am more objective to this situation than you will ever be. You are hiding your head in the sand.

well, to tell you the truth, i never saw it as that, because as i mentioned before these actions occurred spread out thou her life. And were not thought of as warning signals for any kind of serious abuse. i was a kid once who stole a few times and lied a few times and made up stories so people would like me.

Oh so you were a criminal when you were young.

so i try to understand my children actions, but mostly i communicate with them. they talk to me about a lot of things (i am not going to say everything) my daughter knows she can come ask me questions about anything that bothers her.

Sorry but I don't think she can. because she is the alleged victim and you are working to prove the alleged perpetrator is INNOCENT.

yes, she has cfyd counselor coming every week.

Good and hopefully this counselor is trained to deal with children who claim they are sexually abused and hopefully YOU are NO WHERE around during this counseling.

of course i dont want my son to be guilty of this but on the other hand i dont want my daughter to be guilty either. it is very hard trying to sort it all out and know what to do

Quite frankly your daughter should be in foster care. Because it is not helping her to be surrounded by people who don't believe her.

well i am her parent--and i am protecting my child -- and even thou i am not sure if the abuse occurred, its not like i am taking any chances either so i can tell you the abuse, if it did occur, is not going to continue.

Actually you cannot state that. You don't believe it occurred. Hence you cannot state that you can take precautions. You also cannot state that you can protect your daughter.

which is another reason the boy is out of the house until we can find out what happened. since you are an attorney GAL, you know that i could have easily left the girl in foster care and kept the boy at home.

Truthfully maybe that is what you should have done. Because your daughter deserves to be around people who support and are unconditional in their support and NOT around people who are pulling for the perpetrator.

or i could have took the girl to my moms and kept my precious little boy as you seem to think. however i did not. i wanted to my daughter to be at home with her family. and again spare me, i am not even talking about these allegations with the girl unless the cfyd counsel is here.

You shouldn't be talking at all. Counseling should be ONLY with your daughter at this point.

let me guess, you are also one of Those who think spanking is wrong and abuse.

You would be wrong.

let me also assume that you dont have brothers, nephews, cousins who wrestle around the house and teased you merciless either.

Wrong.

Probably don’t have any children either for that matter.

You are full of ignorance.

Well, yet again, i never said it was acceptable for my son to HIT my daughter, which i do believe is completely different from wrestling, biffing on the head, or even spanking (which he is never allowed to do)

What have you done to STOP it or correct it. Because here you blamed on your daughter. She gets hit because SHE did something.

And yet again, i have not told her i thought she was lying.

You don't need to say anything for your ATTITUDE to convey it.

i am however working with cyfd and the police and whoever else is involved, i dont have anything to hide, and.... yet again, she does actually come to me about many many many things. which is why i dont understand why she didnt about this. believe me or not, i do care, she is really close to me and we have a good relationship.

You have a good relationship even though you accuse her of lying constantly?

not sure which part you are referring too. i also thought it was possible on the first part and one of the little things i cant add up in my head. but the second part about the bruises is no way possible, what ever he could have done to her, and i thought about, talked about it and even reacted it with my husband, trying to figure out what my son could have done to leave 5 inches bruises on either part of her inner thigh, so whatever he could have done, in NO WAY could she have slept thru it all. it is not possible to get hit, pushed, slapped, stepped on or whatever so hard that it leaves those kinds of bruises with out it also hurting and waking you up.

She could have blacked out. She could have pushed it into a part of her memory so she doesn't remember. Many things could have happened to where she REALLY DOES NOT REMEMBER.

what actions and what accusations. You think that I should not try to find answers? What parent just doesn’t do anything in these types of allegations? I would think that the parent that does nothing would be the kind that doesn’t care not the other way around.

YOU are not trained to get answers regarding sexual abuse. YOU have NO RIGHT to be doing this. you already state that you don't believe you son did this. Hence you could face criminal charges -- if they charge your son -- for tampering with a witness.

 

[Ohiogal]

Ohiogal. It is hard to give all the details and information in one little forum. But you are an attorney and feel like you have the right to not only condemn me as a bad mother and not sympathizing with her or caring for her but instead of offering suggestions and the help i asked for, you feel free to persecute me for things you "think" i didnt do or should have done.

I don't sympathize with you and do believe that you have handled this situation wrong due to the way you have discussed things on here.

I hope you dont make snap decisions on someones guilt like you have mine in court. Yes, i am confused, Yes, i am in pain, And i came online to this site for help so i can make solid, well researched, and confident decisions in this case. that alone should prove how much i care about my children and that DOES include the 12 year old girl also.

I never said you were guilty. I stated that you were wrong in how you were acting towards your daughter who you claim to love and care about yet if you look at how you refer to her, you are arguing the case that she is lying and your son is a "good boy". Hence you are defending him. Which puts your daughter in a horrible situation. Neither of these children should be in your home.

I have raised and cared for both of these children from before they were even born. i have watched, and protected and tried to teach both morals and good values.

Really? Not buying it.

i have tried to teach them right and wrong and how to make good decisions and right choices, to stand up for themselves and to be independent as well as a lawful and productive citizen. And to make sure they are safe, secure in their home and have a happy, loving and caring childhood. i have seen their personalities developed and supported their growing pains. But mostly i have showed them both that they are loved and cherished and cared for and are my entire world.

Before this was EITHER child in therapy?

i have no idea what makes you feel that the girl has not been protected or loved or cared for or listened to and how in the world all this became MY fault and she needs protection from me and i am the problem.

Because she has made accusations and you are doing everything you can to convince yourself that your son is innocent. Which doesn't give support to your daughter. Again, she should NOT be in your home. if you want to support your son then bring him home and put your daughter in foster care. That way she is not subjected to a form of emotional abuse.

I have no idea who you are and have no desire to even figure out how you think lady, but i would bet my bottom dollar that if this happened to you, you would react the same way and be just as in shock, lost and confused that i am feeling.

Actually no I wouldn't. lets leave it at that.

i never said they SHOULDNT be, i was merely trying to tell people where we are at and the reason i am scared and seeking advise from online lawyers. And yes, i already said that in order to get my daughter back 2 days later, i have to remove my son for her safety, he is currently living with my parents.

And then you come on here and say what a saint he is and what a liar your daughter is.

probably not, but he remembers that he what he did not ejaculate on. would you like the list of this he has ejaculated on? maybe you feel I shouldn’t have ask him? What would have been the correct question? Btw, the sock has not been processed yet so we are waiting.

If he cannot remember what he ejaculated on then he does NOT remember what he did not ejaculate on.

of course not, are you dense. i wouldnt hurt her that way, she is only 12. i havent told either one anything on what i feel. this is my personal opinion and i am desperately looking for answers to believe her.

On here you accuse her of constantly lying. That attitude is pervasive. She doesn't need you to say it because she can pick up on your feelings.

i ask her questions i feel that anyone would ask and i ask him questions the same. because i do realize if this has happened to her how much that could damage her. and believe me or not, i am worried about how all of this is going to effect her and change her.

Really? YOu are trained to know what questions to ask and how to deal with this situation with the victim -- especially when you believe she is lying -- and how not to make matters worse? I am betting you don't. I am also betting that your questions are not as realistic as you think. Nor are they as helpful or aiding the situation. Your best bet is to SHUT UP ABOUT IT and don't question either child.

she has a counselor with cyfd we are looking for someone more permanent and who can continue to counsel her after all this.

Why wasn't she in counseling for all her lies and such?

And never, never did i say this was okay but it is normal for children to fight, especially brothers and sisters. but you must have never fought with your siblings or you are an only child so that must be why you dont understand this and needed additional explanations.

Never mind. More ignorance from you.

my son got in serious trouble for doing those things to his sister, and when things were handled poorly by either party then they were punished. this doesnt happen frequently just every blue moon. the slaps on the arm or biff to the back of the head were NOT only not accepted but privileges taken away. however they were not extremely violent or even painful.

Says you.

just annoying, i know because i have had this happen to me occasionally (NOT by my son). i do not consider a biff to the back of the head as assault but believe me lady if it had been i would have called the cops on him for it.

Actually it is assault PER THE LAW.

Actually she NEVER said he RAPED her. are you sure you are able to pay attention to detail. she said he put his dick in her mouth.

HEY IGNORANT ONE -- that is a type of RAPE. By definition. The legal definition I may add. So quit being ignorant and why don't you try paying attention.

And please spare me, i am not saying that is any better or more acceptable then rape.

It is rape.

i was saying that giving our life as a whole, he was generally a good kid.

A good kid who may have raped his sister.

i would never say my kids are perfect because they are not and was explaining that with examples of issues we have had with them in the past 12 to 15 years--to give a peek into our daily lives before these allegations came up. the problems that came up in the past, i did concern as normal at the time.

Normal? It is not normal to continuously lie and shoplift. Of course you would think it was because you were a little thief when you were younger.

Apparently i failed miserably at that.

You failed pretty darn good actually. You parented miserably and you are handling this situation miserably but you failed PERFECTLY.

 

[Ohiogal]

Again i am being told i am making excuses where i should be taking action. Can someone tell me what excuses i am making and i am dying for anyone to tell me what actions I should be making.

Try reading this and realizing your first statement says a lot about you and you can't hide that from your daughter:

95% of me doesnt think the happened and she is making it up. i never saw any kind of sexual or inapproriate behavior between the two. they fight god awful about the phone, and everything else. and he does hit her arm or the back of her head, and does trip her somethings usually after she has yelled or hit him first. but that that was normal. my son is basically a good kid; no drugs or alcohol, doesnt hang out with gang members, has many friends and gets along with everyone (except his sister), no parties, doesnt stay out too late (does break curfew sometimes) and does not really lie, (all proven)he is horrible with doing his homework and his grades is really the only problem we had have with him and his back talking. my daughter on the other hand has been horrible the last two years, she usually is happy thou, smiling and laughing and singing all the time, she is a huggy type of person, but she lies all the time (proven), stole her bf sister nintendo ds (because she wanted one), stole money from me on 2 different occasion (claims she found it)stole my sister and nieces jewerly, stole my wedding rings, makes up stories to her friends (once that we were moving, once that her dad was going to prison, that i force her to clean the house and take care of the kids, so forth and so on) she loves being the victim and enjoys the attention she gets from it. when asks about anything above she lies, never does admit to stealing or lying or making up stories. she never shows remorse or has a concience. dispite these troubles, i did think they were normal teenage girl issues.

The first statement about your son is how he is a good kid and they start trying to prove it to us. The first statement about your daughter is how horrible she is and then you start building that case. And you wonder why you come across as making excuses? You don't want your son to have done this so you built your case in the above paragraph about why your daughter is a HORRIBLE person and, not only is she horrible, but that she LOVES being the victim and enjoys the attention she is getting from it.

You are totally oblivious and blind to the harm you have done and what your attitude is doing to your children. Your son is such a good kid? If he is convicted you will still be making excuses. May your daughter be removed from you. That "horrible" child deserves better than you.

 

[Ohiogal]

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you!
Guys, lets look at the facts here...the ONLY facts we really have. The daughter (as outlined by mom) has a history of repeated lying and not just small lies either. So this can either be a situation where she has taken that lying to a whole NEW level and is now reveling in the brand new attention and fuss thats being made on her account...OR the repeated lying is a PRODUCT of the long years of abuse. Everyone's right in that either way BOTH children need to be in some serious counseling to work through this ordeal. But other than that we have NO facts or evidence that says the brother actually did anything. Before we play judge, jury, and executioner we should step back for a sec and look at what small amount of info we have which at this point really isnt anything at all. Just saying guys before we go off and tell her she deserves the bad mother of the year award


Now, all the moms and dads here need to stop for a sec and take a minute to ask yourselves how inclined you would be to believe a child that you KNOW has a history of lying and being just generally a bad kid? Personally, even I think I might take a step back for a sec and wonder...but that question would NEVER be made outloud.

So why didn't stellar mom get her lying daughter in counseling? Why didn't she deal with the issue? Oh yeah because mom didn't want to. If she had gotten the lying daughter in counseling when she was stealing and lying, then maybe she wouldn't have this problem. Personally, if daughter was raped then mom needs to lose her rights PERMANENTLY to her.