Need Advice On Visitation Change (Long Story) Please Help!

[adonahee]

Don't take this the wrong way....

But just from going back and forth on this issue, you have really demonstrated to quite a few people how argumentative you are. If this is what happens as a matter of habit, it is no wonder that your Ex doesn't respond. You'd rather not write a 5th letter, and you'd rather not go to court. I'd say you're in a tough spot. I'm out of advice - I wonder if anyone else out there has another option?

 

[AmIUnreasonable]

I know it looks that way but I am not agruing about the subject. I went with her suggestion. I just want her to say, ok lets start do it now but that isnt happening.

Look, it breaks my heart to see my kids up so early, crying and not feeling good. I tried to go over later so they could sleep and the ex said if i did that then I would give up my rights to visit for the week. I love my little girls so much and it kills me to see them hurting and so tired. On the 4th of july i was allowed to have them that sunday from 2-10 pm. I thought for sure that since it was so late she would just let them spend the night. No, she picked up the kids at 10pm and i had to get them the next morning at 5:30 am. I dont want to go to court but this time i will and this time i will do it with a lawyer. My baby is 5 years old and it is not right to see her crying monday mornings the way she does. Kindergarden starts for her this year. do you know how tough this is going to be on her. Its about a 20 minute drive back to my place from moms and it just kills me to hear them in the back so sad and upset. Why am I being told not to do what ever it takes to keep them from hurting. God this is so upseting. I am not arguing, I would agree to what ever she wants. If she said come get them at 7:30 am, I would. If she said sunday nights I would. If she came up with any suggestion, i would. ANYTHING but 5:30 am. And that is just what time we pick them up at, she actually gets them up at 4:30 when she gets ready for work.

Im sorry but im just really upset that i have to see my kids go through this.

This is a copy of the fourth letter i plan on sending, does this sound unreasonable????

"As you know, I have been trying to discuss with you a change in the Monday morning routine regarding the pick up time of the girls. I feel that 5:30 am is way too early to pick the girls up, especially on school days.

You had responded with suggestions in which I had agreed to one in particular. (Your suggestion B, ““Jeff can drop off the girls at your apartment at 7:30am”) Since my last letter agreeing to your suggestion, I haven’t heard back from you on the subject. Its now been over two months.

School for the girls starts soon and I would like to resolve this issue before the next school year starts.

Please Tracy, let’s resolve this issue. If you would like, I can see if it is possible to schedule a third party to mediate any reservations each of us may have with the changes. I am not sure if it is possible, but it is certainly worth a try to do what is best for our children."

does that really sound unreasonable??????? Is this being argumentative?????

 

[BL]

Look , you've been told by quite a few senior members, and one even gave you a site to go to way back at the beginning of this thread to go to .

The Judge is perfectly right, If you both don't want to come to an agreement and have that agreement ordered, the court will make an order neither of you likes.

Now there is no more to say. Remind her of what the Judge said .
File a modification Petition, with either an a agreement or without , or keep telling yourself all this babbling in your own head. It's getting old .

There' is no more anyone can tell you .

 

[AmIUnreasonable]

I am sorry if this is bugging you. I wont ask anymore. I just wanted some good advice on how to approach someone. Im sorry to have been a bother.

 

[stealth2]

Well, this may be a contrary opinion, but I don't see you as being unreasonable. I deal with a difficult other parent as well. We are actually at the point where we've been court-ordered to a mediator for visitation issues. That's no picnic. I'm the custodial parent and I am getting reamed by the mediator - what the ex wants, he gets. Including Mother's Day, pulling the kids out of school, etc. Mediation is not necessarily a great solution. Sorry.

If you'd like, feel free to shoot me a PM. However, I don't see you having any choice except an attorney and going back to court.

 

[BL]

I am sorry if this is bugging you. I wont ask anymore. I just wanted some good advice on how to approach someone. Im sorry to have been a bother.

It's not bugging me really . In the heat of it all emotions spill over the top .
The Court is looking to make a Legal ruling without taking up unwarranted time . That's the Facts . If the Parties can't come to an agreement, the Judge will decide .

The Courts have heard the stories over and over . Believe me , my emotions ran wild over Custody/visitations.

The court however deals with Law. I was trying to get that point across .
Hopefully you can get the Other Parent to see it this way too, and you can compromise where it's best for the children.If you each don't give and take, the Judge will be giving and taking instead .

 

[AmIUnreasonable]

Thank you stealth2 and everyones else for there advice. I only want what is best for our girls. And NO, I dont want to go to court. Who does??? But if I have to, I will. Hopefully a judge will see that I am trying to do what is best for the kids. Does anyone else see that 5:30 am pick up is too early??? Her new husband told me that sometimes on sunday nights he finds the girls playing at 10 pm. They need more sleep than that. But the issue is not if they go to bed on time on sundays, thats her household and she makes those decisions. What I am worried about is that they get up at 4:30 - 4:45am every Monday morning. Anyway, I wont keep rehashing it all. Just needed a place to vent and get advice.

BTW, if i had realized that 5:30 am would be so hard on the girls I wouldnt have agreed on it in the first place.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Quite frankly you do sound like you are being unreasonable and making your children pawns in your ongoing battle for control which I susspect was an issue in your marriage. You also sound like you are trying to get more time for the sake of getting more time, also it has changed for both of you being in new live in relationships, now you admit she is remarried, might that have something to do with your intent? IN your letters you SHOUT BY USING ALL BOLD TYPE!!!!!!!!
TRY USING "I" messages rather than accusing her. It is not reasonible to expect children to always go to bed so early, so being up late on a Sunday night is not unusual, most likely they would still be up that late by the time you got them home if you picked them up at 7:45, I'll bet you interrogate them. Let them have peace, if they want to call let it be up to the children, not a forced visitation. You are using these as excuses to get control and everyone sees straight through you, is it any wonder your ex is insisting on keeping to the agreement.

You achieve what is in the children's best interest by relaxing some. Several people made suggestions that allow both parents equal time, that is not what you, want but that is what is fair and good for the children. All this stress isn't good for anyone or any of the relationships.

My suggestion is since your ex has Friday's off and I assume you do also as you stated you worked 12/3/4 schedule that you do also, so a once weekly exchange on Thursday evenings, allows both parents an opportunity for extended weekends (3 day) with the children for trips and the other parent a totally free week and weekend, alternating every other week. Allowing for some negotion for vacations if you can manage that. That doesn't mean that you can't help at school or be there for special occasions, but being reasonable. Then the children get to sleep in as long as possible where ever they are on school days and later during school vacations. The routine will do them good and it will do you good too to have some weeks with less "interrupted sleep". I used to work graveyard, then do my internships during the day, so I know what is happening with you getting interrupted sleep, your mood may improve with this new schedule. I don't know how far they live from school, is it possible for them to walk to school or take the bus? Day care is not the worst thing that can happen to a child better than all this stirfe. Think about these things.

 

[AmIUnreasonable]

now you admit she is remarried, might that have something to do with your intent?

First of all, I am very happy that she has found happiness with a new marriage. Second, I was concerned about this Monday morning issue well before her marriage. I think her new husband is a GREAT guy and treats the girls wonderfully. I am so thankful for that. This a new marriage in the past week, i was concerned about this long before the marriage! AGAIN i dont care about the marriage! Just the girls.

IN your letters you SHOUT BY USING ALL BOLD TYPE!!!!!!!!

I used bold writing in my posts to show which part of my posts was the letter and which part was my post. Do you really believe I sent her a letter with bold writing???

You also sound like you are trying to get more time for the sake of getting more time

I agreed to her suggestion. That takes away 2 hours from my time. How is that trying to get more time? I dont care about losing time. I just want to do what is best for my kids.

I'll bet you interrogate them

Interogate my children??? How dare you suggest something that isnt true. Where on earth did you get that from.


It is not reasonible to expect children to always go to bed so early, so being up late on a Sunday night is not unusual, most likely they would still be up that late by the time you got them home if you picked them up at 7:45

Yes, I do believe that a 5 and 7 year old should not be getting to bed at 10pm and getting up at 4:30 am. You can say that is unreasonable, I dont think so. I think children need sleep.

Several people made suggestions that allow both parents equal time, that is not what you, want but that is what is fair and good for the children

I listened to everyones suggestions and am greatful for them and listen to me ONE MORE TIME, I agreed with my ex's suggestion. She just doesnt want to implement it now. Is this how fathers get treated. If it was reversed, would i be talked to this way?????

BTW, I used the bold/italics in this post to show which were your comments. Didnt want you getting confused!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Have you thought of this to show something is differnet or using " " to show someone else's comments.

You really haven't got a clue and it is difficult to have objectivity especially when you feel hurt or rejected.

You don't have to tell me who filed for divorce. Of course you know the appropriate things to say, but you don't realize what you say indirectly.

Yes children 5 & 7 should go to bed earlier, but kids will be kids and not always do that. That is reality. I'm sure you ask your children what happened during their time away from you, afterall you are their father and have a right, but when do you cross the line?

Who knows what you may learn to use in your next fight, eg you made a point of stating that her new husband said the children had been up until 10 pm and you used that here to attempt to gain sympathy.

See what I mean?

Like I said, think about these things, don't react, THINK! Yes, that was in all caps on purpose. Now go put some soothing music on and put your feet up and relax, think about how nice it will be if you can work out a schedule that allows for you to get more quality sleep time...........

 

[AmIUnreasonable]

Um ok, so I wont bold things. I guess I can do that.

Also, you said i didnt need to tell you but I will, we filed jointly for divorce. We both didnt want to be married anymore to each other. We are complete opposites and we were never ment to be married. I am so happy she is happy. That means the world to me. I am neither hurt or rejected because she is remarried. It is what I would want for her.

Yes, I do ask my children how there days were without me. They tell me about swimming and having fun. I do what I can to make sure I do not cross that line. It is there time with mom and it is her household. Like I have said before, I want what is best for my girls.

Who knows what you may learn to use in your next fight, eg you made a point of stating that her new husband said the children had been up until 10 pm and you used that here to attempt to gain sympathy.

This was not an attempt to gain sympathy but just a point to make showing that they are not getting the sleep they deserve. I wanted to show to everyone that I am not just picking on their mom. I am not trying to take anything or any time away from her with our kids. Do you have any idea what it is like to call up their mom and say, "hey, can I just pick the girls up at 7:30 am instead of 5:30 am so they can have some more sleep" and then get a recorded message on my answering machine saying, "per the paperwork, you will be here at 5:30 am or you forfiet your time with the girls." Is that ok? Should I not be upset? In reality, its her controling the situation. Dont you think?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

listen to some music and relax

 

[frylover]

First, let me say I am not a lawyer and do not have to deal a difficult ex--mine or anyone else's. Had my husband had the stomach for a court fight I suspect strongly that his ex would have been like yours,though.

I don't think you are unreasonable at all. You sound like a truly concerned dad to me. Yes, you had reasons why certain suggestions wouldn't work but what I also saw was that you agreed to a suggestion your ex made and suddenly she didn't want it anymore. It sounds to me like it's not even so much that she wants things her way as she doesn't want anything you agree with.

It also sounds like you are going to have to go to court if you want things changed, though.

 

[AmIUnreasonable]

Thank you frylover. It seems like my points havent been getting across to everyone. Im glad someone out there sees what I am trying to say.

 

[kitty73990]

I agree that you are not being unreasonable. I have an order in place with my ex-husband that states that he can pick up our son on Fridays after school and bring him back to my house at 6:30 am Mondays so that I can take him to school (school doesn't start until 9:05am). So I do understand what you are talking about. It has been difficult for him, but he has adjusted. Although he is very tired at the end of the day (school lets out at 3:40pm). What I am most concerned with is her threatening you with not being able to have your visitation with the children if you are late picking tham up. Does it state in you divorce papers that if either party is late they will not have visitation? I think that is unreasonable of her and that she is the one using the children as pawns. I think that you should try to get her to understand that things need to change for the sake of your girls or a judge will make it more difficult for you both. Then she will really resent you and you both really need to be there for the girls, which means being amicable with each other for their sake.
PS I liked the bold print it really did help me in distinguishing the letter from your concerns!!