Rights of father vs happiness of 14 year old

[Ohiogal]

Yes, which is why I posted my original question, which you have not answered. At what point AS A PARENT is it a bigger priority for me to back my son? Apparently your opinion is such that under no circumstances is a court order to be broken. Apparently your opinion is that I am not effectively parenting because I am not insisting he get into the car and go. Everything is black and white in your world?

You don't get to choose to disobey the law or a court order. If it is that bad then you as a parent should do the responsible thing and file for a MODIFICATION OF THE COURT ORDER. The fact that you seem to want an excuse to break the court order shows that you seem to think that law does not apply for you. Again, it is as I said. You are looking for an excuse. You have legal options available. You choose not to use them. Therefore, I do believe you are not effectively parenting. You are choosing to allow your child to be a spoiled, entitled brat and saying that is perfectly all right because court orders shouldn't apply if YOU don't think they should. Which is NOT effective parenting. In fact, it is pathetic parenting. You have legal options. Use them.

 

[FinallyFree]

For not sending the child. You obey the court order UNTIL you get it changed. End of story.

Ok that makes sense. Yes I can petition the court.. I know that's an option. I just wasn't sure if that's the most logical next best step or what would happen if I just didn't force him to go.

I'm not looking for an excuse to not send him however.. I'm not looking to keep him all to myself. I have always encouraged him to visit his father, even to the extent of making excuses for his dads behavior or mean comments: "He is under a lot of stress, give him another chance" or "don't take these comments personal.. just because he says them doesn't make them true" etc etc etc.

 

[Proserpina]

At my house he gets possessions taken away. That seems to be the most effective, but it's trial and error.



Why? Probably because being at his dads house negatively affects him. Probably because he knows he has another parent that he could potentially live with. At 14 he's not completely oblivious to how these things work. Do you think children should have no say regardless of circumstance?

Doesn't matter what I think (but since you asked, the answer is "no" - they don't get to decide whether or not they visit the other parent unless there is obvious harm going on...but of course if there was, the court would already be involved, wouldn't they?).

What matters is that you have a court order. And you're letting your 14 year old run circles around you. This is not going to end well.

Perhaps you need to be focusing on teaching him coping skills?

And truly, do you think your 14 year old should have the freedom to knock off school because he doesn't like it?

 

[Ladyback1]

Yes, which is why I posted my original question, which you have not answered. At what point AS A PARENT is it a bigger priority for me to back my son? Apparently your opinion is such that under no circumstances is a court order to be broken. Apparently your opinion is that I am not effectively parenting because I am not insisting he get into the car and go. Everything is black and white in your world?

When there are court orders (and a parenting plan is a court order), it is black or white. If you want to change things, you need to figure out if you can/want to/have the resources to file for a modification.

 

[Proserpina]

Yes, which is why I posted my original question, which you have not answered. At what point AS A PARENT is it a bigger priority for me to back my son? Apparently your opinion is such that under no circumstances is a court order to be broken. Apparently your opinion is that I am not effectively parenting because I am not insisting he get into the car and go. Everything is black and white in your world?

That point comes once there's no longer a court order requiring him to visit his other parent.

Look - we get that visitation can be inconvenient and a pain in the derriere for either parent, both parents, neither parent or even the child. But once there's a court order in place, there really isn't much option. We can't play loose with which bits we want to follow and which bits we don't.

There are a few States which allow a teen to make the call. Those decisions generally come from a situation where there has been abuse, neglect or the other parent has just turned up out of the blue after 14 years of being absent.

 

[Ladyback1]

CPS should be a last resort. A parent IS different. Plain and simple. She has other legal options. CPS should be after those are exhausted. OP seems to want an excuse however.

I don't disagree....I guess my point was: if the incident is going to be used to justify not enforcing the parenting plan, then it certainly should rise to the level of involving the appropriate authorities. OP can't have it both ways.

 

[FinallyFree]

You don't get to choose to disobey the law or a court order. If it is that bad then you as a parent should do the responsible thing and file for a MODIFICATION OF THE COURT ORDER. The fact that you seem to want an excuse to break the court order shows that you seem to think that law does not apply for you. Again, it is as I said. You are looking for an excuse. You have legal options available. You choose not to use them. Therefore, I do believe you are not effectively parenting. You are choosing to allow your child to be a spoiled, entitled brat and saying that is perfectly all right because court orders shouldn't apply if YOU don't think they should. Which is NOT effective parenting. In fact, it is pathetic parenting. You have legal options. Use them.

Well there you go assuming again. He is automatically a spoiled, entitled brat because he doesn't want to go to his dads?

It's not that I think the law does not apply to me. I know it applies and I believe I stated that pretty clearly from the beginning. I don't want to get into hot water by not insisting he goes... go back and retread my first post. Yes I would be intentionally breaking the court order if I don't force him to go, I get that, but for good reason. Going to court will really set him off. Going to court also means our son will likely have to speak out against him to the judge. It's a difficult road for all involved which is why I'm hesitant. His dad can be scary and unpredictable. I have just been weighing the impact of "breaking the law" under the present circumstances against the repercussions of taking him back to court.

 

[Proserpina]

Well there you go assuming again. He is automatically a spoiled, entitled brat because he doesn't want to go to his dads?

It's not that I think the law does not apply to me. I know it applies and I believe I stated that pretty clearly from the beginning. I don't want to get into hot water by not insisting he goes... go back and retread my first post. Yes I would be intentionally breaking the court order if I don't force him to go, I get that, but for good reason. Going to court will really set him off. Going to court also means our son will likely have to speak out against him to the judge. It's a difficult road for all involved which is why I'm hesitant. His dad can be scary and unpredictable. I have just been weighing the impact of "breaking the law" under the present circumstances against the repercussions of taking him back to court.

Can we look at this a different way?

If the situation is as acrimonious as you're indicating, the best option you have is just to obey that court order word for word. Don't give Dad a reason to get pissy with you or kiddo.

Help Junior come to the understanding that sometimes we have to do stuff we don't want to do. This is one of those thing. And yeah, when he's raising a fuss about not wanting to do to Dads, he needs to get himself into that car - end of story. Failure to do so will involve him losing privileges at your house.

Major loss of privileges.

Because you've given no real reason to go back to court. And some judges will treat the CP much more harshly when there appears to be a disrespecting teen than they might treat a CP who has an uppity 6 year old.

Let's face it - the last thing you OR kiddo wants is for a judge to modify the circumstances and have kiddo living with Dad with you visiting. Right?

 

[FinallyFree]

Doesn't matter what I think (but since you asked, the answer is "no" - they don't get to decide whether or not they visit the other parent unless there is obvious harm going on...but of course if there was, the court would already be involved, wouldn't they?).

What matters is that you have a court order. And you're letting your 14 year old run circles around you. This is not going to end well.

Perhaps you need to be focusing on teaching him coping skills?

And truly, do you think your 14 year old should have the freedom to knock off school because he doesn't like it?

Totally agree on teaching him coping skills. That is something I have been working hard at and am a firm believer that those skills are a necessity in life.

Not going to school is completely different, obviously. Apples to apples.

Just to clarify, this is all kinda coming down the pipe right now. My son told me just last week that he wants to live with me.. it was after that last incident with his dad that I posted about earlier. Up until then he had still be going, enough to please his dad for the most part anyway, even though not 50/50 the last 6 month or so. I haven't yet refused his dad his visitation time, but this I something I am now up against.

 

[Proserpina]

Totally agree on teaching him coping skills. That is something I have been working hard at and am a firm believer that those skills are a necessity in life.

Not going to school is completely different, obviously. Apples to apples.

School = legal necessity

Following the court order = legal necessity.

Just to clarify, this is all kinda coming down the pipe right now. My son told me just last week that he wants to live with me.. it was after that last incident with his dad that I posted about earlier. Up until then he had still be going, enough to please his dad for the most part anyway, even though not 50/50 the last 6 month or so. I haven't yet refused his dad his visitation time, but this I something I am now up against.

It really isn't. Mom, it shouldn't even be open for discussion to be perfectly honest. Not in this situation.

 

[CdwJava]

Yes, which is why I posted my original question, which you have not answered. At what point AS A PARENT is it a bigger priority for me to back my son? Apparently your opinion is such that under no circumstances is a court order to be broken. Apparently your opinion is that I am not effectively parenting because I am not insisting he get into the car and go. Everything is black and white in your world?

YOU do not simply get to say you decline to follow the order. If you do that, you can lose the child and your freedom.

And, to reiterate the statements of others, Junior doesn't get to make that call (going with dad) unless the court says he does. If he does not go on his scheduled visitation, YOU can be found in contempt of court.

There is a way to violate the court order and try and protect yourself. It does, however, require you to request an emergency hearing with the Family Court and to contact the District Attorney's office ASAP in order to explain the circumstances surrounding your refusal to obey the order. Even doing all that there is no guarantee that you would not be charged with the crime for disobeying the order.

PC 278.7. (a) Section 278.5 does not apply to a person with a right to
custody of a child who, with a good faith and reasonable belief that
the child, if left with the other person, will suffer immediate
bodily injury or emotional harm, takes, entices away, keeps,
withholds, or conceals that child.
(b) Section 278.5 does not apply to a person with a right to
custody of a child who has been a victim of domestic violence who,
with a good faith and reasonable belief that the child, if left with
the other person, will suffer immediate bodily injury or emotional
harm, takes, entices away, keeps, withholds, or conceals that child.
"Emotional harm" includes having a parent who has committed domestic
violence against the parent who is taking, enticing away, keeping,
withholding, or concealing the child.
(c) The person who takes, entices away, keeps, withholds, or
conceals a child shall do all of the following:
(1) Within a reasonable time from the taking, enticing away,
keeping, withholding, or concealing, make a report to the office of
the district attorney of the county where the child resided before
the action. The report shall include the name of the person, the
current address and telephone number of the child and the person, and
the reasons the child was taken, enticed away, kept, withheld, or
concealed.
(2) Within a reasonable time from the taking, enticing away,
keeping, withholding, or concealing, commence a custody proceeding in
a court of competent jurisdiction consistent with the federal
Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act (Section 1738A, Title 28, United
States Code) or the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act (Part 3
(commencing with Section 3400) of Division 8 of the Family Code).
(3) Inform the district attorney's office of any change of address
or telephone number of the person and the child.
(d) For the purposes of this article, a reasonable time within
which to make a report to the district attorney's office is at least
10 days and a reasonable time to commence a custody proceeding is at
least 30 days. This section shall not preclude a person from making a
report to the district attorney's office or commencing a custody
proceeding earlier than those specified times.
(e) The address and telephone number of the person and the child
provided pursuant to this section shall remain confidential unless
released pursuant to state law or by a court order that contains
appropriate safeguards to ensure the safety of the person and the
child.​

 

[FinallyFree]

Can we look at this a different way?

If the situation is as acrimonious as you're indicating, the best option you have is just to obey that court order word for word. Don't give Dad a reason to get pissy with you or kiddo.

Help Junior come to the understanding that sometimes we have to do stuff we don't want to do. This is one of those thing. And yeah, when he's raising a fuss about not wanting to do to Dads, he needs to get himself into that car - end of story. Failure to do so will involve him losing privileges at your house.

Major loss of privileges.

Because you've given no real reason to go back to court. And some judges will treat the CP much more harshly when there appears to be a disrespecting teen than they might treat a CP who has an uppity 6 year old.

Let's face it - the last thing you OR kiddo wants is for a judge to modify the circumstances and have kiddo living with Dad with you visiting. Right?

If this were you in my shoes, would you truly not even consider siding with your kid? I guess it comes down to whether he's just being a "disrespectful teenager" or if it's something more...

 

[FinallyFree]

YOU do not simply get to say you decline to follow the order. If you do that, you can lose the child and your freedom.

And, to reiterate the statements of others, Junior doesn't get to make that call (going with dad) unless the court says he does. If he does not go on his scheduled visitation, YOU can be found in contempt of court.

There is a way to violate the court order and try and protect yourself. It does, however, require you to request an emergency hearing with the Family Court and to contact the District Attorney's office ASAP in order to explain the circumstances surrounding your refusal to obey the order. Even doing all that there is no guarantee that you would not be charged with the crime for disobeying the order.

PC 278.7. (a) Section 278.5 does not apply to a person with a right to
custody of a child who, with a good faith and reasonable belief that
the child, if left with the other person, will suffer immediate
bodily injury or emotional harm, takes, entices away, keeps,
withholds, or conceals that child.
(b) Section 278.5 does not apply to a person with a right to
custody of a child who has been a victim of domestic violence who,
with a good faith and reasonable belief that the child, if left with
the other person, will suffer immediate bodily injury or emotional
harm, takes, entices away, keeps, withholds, or conceals that child.
"Emotional harm" includes having a parent who has committed domestic
violence against the parent who is taking, enticing away, keeping,
withholding, or concealing the child.
(c) The person who takes, entices away, keeps, withholds, or
conceals a child shall do all of the following:
(1) Within a reasonable time from the taking, enticing away,
keeping, withholding, or concealing, make a report to the office of
the district attorney of the county where the child resided before
the action. The report shall include the name of the person, the
current address and telephone number of the child and the person, and
the reasons the child was taken, enticed away, kept, withheld, or
concealed.
(2) Within a reasonable time from the taking, enticing away,
keeping, withholding, or concealing, commence a custody proceeding in
a court of competent jurisdiction consistent with the federal
Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act (Section 1738A, Title 28, United
States Code) or the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act (Part 3
(commencing with Section 3400) of Division 8 of the Family Code).
(3) Inform the district attorney's office of any change of address
or telephone number of the person and the child.
(d) For the purposes of this article, a reasonable time within
which to make a report to the district attorney's office is at least
10 days and a reasonable time to commence a custody proceeding is at
least 30 days. This section shall not preclude a person from making a
report to the district attorney's office or commencing a custody
proceeding earlier than those specified times.
(e) The address and telephone number of the person and the child
provided pursuant to this section shall remain confidential unless
released pursuant to state law or by a court order that contains
appropriate safeguards to ensure the safety of the person and the
child.​

Okay. Thank you for the information.

 

[cbg]

It is the nature of the 14 (and 15, and 16, and 17, and 18) year old boy to clash with their father. It's normal, it's even healthy, and it comes from the hormonal instinct, just beginning in the teenage boy, to be the alpha male.

Which at 14 he isn't. And you shouldn't be giving him any reason to believe he is, by giving him a choice about whether to follow a court order or not.

 

[Proserpina]

If this were you in my shoes, would you truly not even consider siding with your kid? I guess it comes down to whether he's just being a "disrespectful teenager" or if it's something more...

It's not my place to side with my kids.

It would be my place to teach Junior that there are rules, and outside of extenuating circumstances, those rules will be followed whether they like 'em or hate 'em.

I know 14 year olds. There are, very commonly more or less designed to be uppity, manipulative, disrespectful and difficult...for as long as the parent allows. This is the age where it's actually even more important to put your foot down, because if you don't they're going to be maladjusted twerps when they finally figure out that it won't be tolerated in the grown-up world.