This is disturbing

[PayrollHRGuy]

THis

Wrong. When people are arrested for immigration issues, they are NOT given due process. NO DUE PROCESS. And the only people being questioned are Hispanic. Not caucasians like COTUS.

What? They have a whole immigration court system. But that isn't what we are talking about.

The only people being questioned about the birth certificates are Hispanic because there is ZERO evidence that the midwife/midwives ever signed off on any other races births.

By the way. If I in speaking about Obama when he was President referrred to him as BOTUS or AAOTUS you guys would have crucified me.

And yet nobody has responded or acknowledged that this started under Obama.

 

[Whoops2u]

And yet nobody has responded or acknowledged that this started under Obama.

If you go to the original settlement, it started under Bush and was originally "settled" with the ACLU under Obama. The settlement required, essentially, due process. I don't think anyone is alleging (At least creditably.) either Obama or Trump was/is in violation of the settlement.

It's just that having a hearing on the matter wasn't really what the plaintiffs in the original suit wanted. They wanted citizenship for all who were born at the time in the valley by the mid-wifes accused of fraud even if they can't prove they were born in the U.S.

It seems they still do.

 

[Zigner]

And yet nobody has responded or acknowledged that this started under Obama.

I'll acknowledge that. It doesn't change my opinion that the government is wrong on this. The government is revoking passports without due process.

 

[Zigner]

If you go to the original settlement, it started under Bush and was originally "settled" with the ACLU under Obama. The settlement required, essentially, due process. I don't think anyone is alleging (At least creditably.) either Obama or Trump was/is in violation of the settlement.

It's just that having a hearing on the matter wasn't really what the plaintiffs in the original suit wanted. They wanted citizenship for all who were born at the time in the valley by the mid-wifes accused of fraud even if they can't prove they were born in the U.S.

It seems they still do.

That's part of it...but the government is now revoking passports that were already issued, and they are doing it without due process. That is wrong.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Are they revoking passports? I have not read all of the MSN rehash of the Washington Post story but the NPR story only talked about not issuing passports.

 

[Whoops2u]

That's part of it...but the government is now revoking passports that were already issued, and they are doing it without due process. That is wrong.

I see the term revoke in many headlines. I don't see any facts indicating any have been revoked without due process in any of the articles I've read. The original article had mentioned that if a person is held for having a bad passport because of the underlying facts on issue are suspected to be false, they detain him at the immigration center. (If he does not self-deport.) He is at the center until he gets a hearing.

While there are differences from the criminal courts, it's pretty much the way probable cause for arrest works for anyone accused of a crime by a police officer.

 

[Zigner]

The reports mention, by name, US citizens who have been visiting out of the country only to have their passport revoked and confiscated upon trying to reenter the country. There is no "due process" there.

 

[xylene]

I made a simple statement of fact with no jingoistic politics. I take it you disagree with the proposition the United States of America has done more good for the world than any other nation in history.

You need someone to read for you?

That's got to be rough.

 

[Ohiogal]

THis


What? They have a whole immigration court system. But that isn't what we are talking about.

The only people being questioned about the birth certificates are Hispanic because there is ZERO evidence that the midwife/midwives ever signed off on any other races births.

By the way. If I in speaking about Obama when he was President referrred to him as BOTUS or AAOTUS you guys would have crucified me.

And yet nobody has responded or acknowledged that this started under Obama.

WRONG. We have an immigration system that doesn't guarantee people counsel -- even INFANTS and TODDLERS. Educate yourself. They also don't guarantee translators if no attorney or in addition to attorney representation. That is a problem. And look at history -- Hispanics are being called into history because Trump thinks they are not sending the best up here... Look at his statements.

 

[Whoops2u]

You need someone to read for you?

That's got to be rough.

Bless your heart.

To be fair, your...ah...syntax is pretty experimental.

 

[Ohiogal]

THis


What? They have a whole immigration court system. But that isn't what we are talking about.

The only people being questioned about the birth certificates are Hispanic because there is ZERO evidence that the midwife/midwives ever signed off on any other races births.

By the way. If I in speaking about Obama when he was President referrred to him as BOTUS or AAOTUS you guys would have crucified me.

And yet nobody has responded or acknowledged that this started under Obama.

The whole immigration court system does NOT guarantee attorney representation EVEN for toddlers. And the birth certificates have been certified due to the fact that some of the people at issue have served in the United States Military. You don't think they asked for identification or such? So you are wrong. And Melania worked illegally in the US when she came here before marrying Trump. She was here on a tourist visa and modeled. She was then granted citizenship. Based upon Trump, she should be stripped as such and deported … as well as the chain migration parents... But they are white. Go figure. And Melania allegedly sucks up to her husband.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

If the immigration court system, which has been active for quite some time, wasn't operating under the requirements of the constitution why, when it was packed full of more liberal justices, didn't it get fixed?

I have no idea about now and I'm sure they do more but years ago they looked at a copy of my birth certificate and made a copy and sent me on my way.

 

[tim_b]

Why is it a bad thing to be nationalistic? And why is trying to control the borders "racist"? I don't get it. Other nations get a free pass when enforcing their immigration laws and sovereignty, so why is it evil when the US (or, rather, the Trump administration) does it but not when almost everyone else does (or when Obama did ... sort of)?

Nationalism: patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.

How is that bad?

I can't speak as to the article presented or the "facts" alluded to within the story (which seems to rely largely on inference and not specific facts), but I recall a great many notable bureaucratic foul-ups have occurred even before Trump was president. We just seem to hear more about them now because most the media doesn't like the guy in office at the moment.

Nationalism promotes dogmatic us vs them mentality. It's a method of shutting down debate in favor of authoritarianism. It can motivate a nation to take to action, but then erodes checks and balances because of the nature of authoritarianism. It's how you end democracies.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Nationalism promotes dogmatic us vs them mentality. It's a method of shutting down debate in favor of authoritarianism. It can motivate a nation to take to action, but then erodes checks and balances because of the nature of authoritarianism. It's how you end democracies.

The only side of the current political spectrum that has been shutting down any debate is not the right. The whole PC movement is authoritarianism and you are correct it is how you end democracies.

 

[CdwJava]

Nationalism promotes dogmatic us vs them mentality. It's a method of shutting down debate in favor of authoritarianism. It can motivate a nation to take to action, but then erodes checks and balances because of the nature of authoritarianism. It's how you end democracies.

Nationalism also encourages pride and engagement. Many things can encourage "us versus them" mentalities. I work on a major university campus and I see the us versus them thing literally every day. Agree with "us" (progressive political idealism du jour) or you are one of "them" (subject to insult, degradation, and even physical assault). If patriotism and national pride are things to be ashamed of, then we should surrender our autonomy now because the great experiment would seem to be over.