school is giving condoms to my 11 year olds!!

[Humusluvr]

Peshaw! We liberals are openminded!

BWAHAHAHAHA Best laugh all day Love you crazy libs!

 

[tranquility]

Do condoms reduce AIDS and pregnancy? Are you kidding?

Two things. First, have you really not followed the argument well enough or is this just a straw man?

Second gets to second order thinking. Does the supply of condoms in the school increase their usage substantially? What secondary behaviors change because of the availability and normalization of sex in children? (Is there an increase in sex? Do people feel more pressure because *some* of the purported ill effects may be mitigated? What are the emotional consequences to the normalization of sexual behavior in children? etc.)

I mean really, get off the high horse a moment and recognize the answer here is not clear and the solution of passing out condoms in school is unproven to efficacy to usage percentage let alone to health benefits or to if sexual activity increases. It is a complex interaction of many things. The government should not be FORCING such matters. Information (teaching) is one thing, the implement to accomplish the illegal and harmful act (I happen to believe sex between children is harmful.) is another.

What's next? A recognition that HIV/AIDS is higher in the population of men who have sex with men therefore maybe they shouldn't do that? (Even with a wrapped rascal?)

 

[Humusluvr]

Two things. First, have you really not followed the argument well enough or is this just a straw man?

It was more of a "What are you missing, tranquility, that you would say something so silly?" type thing. I followed the discussion just fine, thanks.

Second gets to second order thinking. Does the supply of condoms in the school increase their usage substantially? What secondary behaviors change because of the availability and normalization of sex in children? (Is there an increase in sex? Do people feel more pressure because *some* of the purported ill effects may be mitigated? What are the emotional consequences to the normalization of sexual behavior in children? etc.)

You don't think those questions have been asked and studied?

I mean really, get off the high horse a moment and recognize the answer here is not clear and the solution of passing out condoms in school is unproven to efficacy to usage percentage let alone to health benefits or to if sexual activity increases. It is a complex interaction of many things. The government should not be FORCING such matters. Information (teaching) is one thing, the implement to accomplish the illegal and harmful act (I happen to believe sex between children is harmful.) is another.

Yeah, I mean, really, what kind of an a**hole am I that I read your research and rebutted everything you said and presented research as to the efficacy of condom distribution in public schools. Seriously, darn seniors and their FACTS. geesh.

What's next? A recognition that HIV/AIDS is higher in the population of men who have sex with men therefore maybe they shouldn't do that? (Even with a wrapped rascal?)

You've got to be kidding, right? So out there.

 

[Humusluvr]

Best of luck, here, guys. The argument has become ridiculously skewed. Have a pleasant day.

 

[tranquility]

Yeah, I mean, really, what kind of an a**hole am I that I read your research and rebutted everything you said and presented research as to the efficacy of condom distribution in public schools

The "research" you presented had to do with:

A random telephone survey of 517 Indiana residents was conducted from July through October 2003 to assess public opinion about education on correct condom use for HIV and STD prevention; condom availability in Indiana public high schools; and issues related to condom use, effectiveness and promotion

peoples *opinion* on condom use. Not the efficacy. You should read your own research more carefully.

I presented the facts in my reference. It had many studies presented with many results and came to the conclusion I mentioned all the way through. You, at no point, rebutted anything I said or claimed with anything other than your opinion.

Such a strong opinion it is too. You would think it would be factually based in some way.

 

[Lovingmom1]

Not what I am arguing for at all.

But, as schools have ventured into areas previously the venue of the home and family - values - they have confronted those who hold particular beliefs. We should be given the opportunity to opt in or out of those things that directly confront our beliefs and are not specifically related to the primary function of the education system - to educate. Unfortunately, for anyone who has been paying attention (at least in CA) the system has begun to evolve from "educate" to include significant elements of "indoctrinate."

Your state may vary.


Then give me the option to opt out without penalizing my child. And give me advanced notice of days, assemblies, etc, that might be controversial fr those of particular faiths.


They HAVE access. They do NOT need the schools passing them out.

Schools have grown far beyond their original, historical mission. Perhaps if we return to that mission we will find cost savings. In my state mandated educational hours have increased for all manner of socialization soft programs at the expense of education. Imagine what they could save if they did not have to waste hours of time on feel-good programs that do nothing to provide a foundational education or prepare a child for a career or a future education?

My beliefs do not trump yours, but yours should not trump mine, either.

....or have to teach children how to brush their teeth, wash their hands, deal with emotional issues from home, provide them with proper fitting clothing that their parents didn't...I could go on and on about the things I do daily that parents don't do! I'm an educator and truly believe that subjects such as these should be left up to the parent, but so often we are not only the teacher, but the parent, the nurse and the cheerleader for our students! Yes, all parents and students should have a choice to opt out if they so choose, but they are going to find out what was said in the class when their friends come out and share the info!
In a perfect world, school wouldn't have to teach them not to have sex, teach them how to care for the babies they end up with, provide continuation schools that allow for GED's. In a perfect world, kids would know because their parents told them. But in our world, these things (and more) are left up to our schools.
In the meantime, those of us who are responsible, loving parents do what we can, teach what we believe and hopefully raise fine upstanding citizens.
OP...you have a lot of options. Good luck!

 

[CreativeBlock]

It is not the government's role to help kids commit crimes. Shall we pass out clean needles too? How about unadulterated drugs? Or, at least, the proper amounts of drugs to use should be taught in health class.

I'd have to say that I agree with Tranq.

While I wouldn't be morally offended at the school system handing out condoms (I don't believe it adds to the likelihood of a child having sex), I'd much prefer that the "talk" and any handing out of associated paraphernalia be done by their physician, rather than someone whose background I don't necessarily know.

We tend to be awfully open about sex, but if someone's going to disseminate information about sex to my children, I'd prefer it be someone I trust who will give the act the consideration, sensitivity and importance that I would (and neither try to "scare" them out of having sex nor encourage them). And for our family, barring a few family friends, that would be our PCP (whom I do trust to the ends of the earth).

Or one of you guys.

The Sex Ed I had in high school (roughly 25 years ago) was delivered by one of the most frigid people I've ever had the discomfort of dealing with. Her stated position (and yes, she most certainly had one) was that having sex at ALL would either cause pregnancy, sexual disease or the total decimation of any sense of self-esteem. And while we've come a long way, sexual mores and socially, I don't trust a stranger (and one who's likely being forced into teaching the topic, as she clearly was) to treat the topic with respect.

And I think that bad lessons are worse than no lessons at all.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I agree that educating students about their sexuality is wise. If we have a problem with teen pregnancy and STDs in this country, it may be because they don't care about the risk, but we should certainly see to it that it's not because they don't know about the risk.

Yes, this is something that should be a parent's responsibility. But not enough parents are accepting that responsibility. With that being said, many students (the majority, I hope) do have parents who not only accept their responsibility in teaching their children about sex, but insist on doing so. For that reason, parents should have the right to opt out of sexual education in the classroom.

It just seems hypocritical to me that because sexual education is considered a good thing, it can be mandatory. Teaching the philosophy of Jesus Christ would be a good thing, too, but make that mandatory and you'll really have trouble.

 

[Proserpina]

For the record, addicts can obtain free needles (legally) from many sources, some of which are funded at least in part by the government.

(Many free health clinics offer this service)

 

[tranquility]

And, I think that is a good program. I would be opposed to the high school giving them out, even though there seems a clear risk reduction to their distribution. (Which is unclear with condoms based on a number of studies. Perhaps it is because of the otherwise legal distribution channels of condoms.)

 

[musicman654321]

Carl, if all parents were like you, I do not think there would be a need to discuss sex education and condoms at school. The problem is; not all parents are like you. Due to that, I believe the presentation of condoms is better than the alternative.

I would agree with Carl. Giving out condoms is essentially telling the kids to have sex.

I would not be supporting the school board members come election time.

These are libitard programs. Free drugs, free condoms for all !!!

 

[Banned_Princess]

There is high schools in my area that have rehab classes. due to the overly high use of opiate pills (vicodin) and heroin.

I know this is a problem on my island, and even if they were giving out needles in my high school (my district HS that is) , I would have to thank the Lord of my Religion that they are recognizing the kids have a serious problem and are addressing it.

 

[Banned_Princess]

IN case anyone is interested in the story,


http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/11/17/drug-rehab-proposed-at-william-floyd-high-school/


There are more serious issues facing todays youth, then sex education.

 

[ecmst12]

Ask Bristol Palin how effective religion at home and abstinence-only education in schools is at preventing teen pregnancy. Well, don't ask her since she has now gone back to advocating a system which totally failed her. Sometimes teenagers make bad decisions. Easy, no-questions-asked availability of condoms can mean the difference between a bad decision which is emotionally upsetting and perhaps results in some therapy bills or some chastizing by parents and clergy, and a bad decision which results in serious social stigma, loss of youth, predisposition to lifelong poverty, and/or disease that never goes away. It's damage reduction for teenage impulsivity.

The idea is that our children need to be fully equipped to deal with the choices they have to make even at that age. How many people were in loooooove with their boy or girlfriend when they were 15 or 16? How many people have friends that were? Did you think your love was forever? I didn't have sex in high school but I knew lots of people who did. And the message we got was always, it's better to wait, and no birth control is 100% effective, but if you are GOING to have sex, a condom is the best way to protect yourself. And yes, it's important to know how to use it correctly. I hope my teenage kids are like I was and willing to wait, but I would MUCH rather have a teenager who used a condom then one who got pregnant or caused a pregnancy. Etc.

 

[CdwJava]

(Sigh ...)

Once again ... no one is advocating no education, only that the SCHOOL should not be involved in handing out condoms any more than they should be handing out filtered cigarettes, low THC marijuana, needles, safe drugs, low alcohol content liquor, or anything else that we say not to do but tacitly seem to approve of. I mean, if they are going to do it anyway, we might as well make it safer for them to do all those things, right?

Encouraging, or abetting, minors in reckless and even criminal behavior is not the place of the school. Education, sure. But, providing the tools of such behavior is wrong.

As a Christian on the Evangelical side of the spectrum, I understand that I will not have my way in a secular world. I accept that. But, it does not mean that I have to stand by and allow my beliefs to be entirely trampled upon as a result. Most of you here would stand up and scream if the public schools suddenly discarded evolutionary theory for creationism, or discarded sex education for a moralistic version of abstinence education - and I could understand your position. But, why is it that your discomfort would seem to be less tolerable than mine? Because mine may not be the majority view? The same assault you might feel with the schools shoving a theological philosophy down YOUR throat is how it feels to be in my shoes and the shoes of those like me. And there are others who also feel the schools should not be in the business of abetting dangerous activity not from a religious or moral stance, but from a practical one.

Keep the schools about education. They can pass out more textbooks and pencils (we have to buy a lot of those ourselves out here). The other feel good crud and associated fluff that exists - at least in CA schools - can be handled in other ways but rarely have a place in the school. I do not seek to impose my beliefs upon the mainstream, I ask only that they do not force theirs upon me or mine. Seems fair to me.