Day Care!!! Help!!!

[VeeGee]

theother....you said, " My point is that we don't know the whole situation so we shouldn't assume that he is a bad father because he "only" pays $600 a month."

It's true, no one knows the entire situation...but no one implied he was a bad father. From his post, all I heard was him "complaining" about going half with day care for the children. Not to mention his ex partying all the time. All he did was complain...and all I was trying to tell him was the children's best interest should be his concern...not the money he has to shell out for day care! She works, and has the children most of the time. She's even willing to change her hours at work to accomadate her children's time in day care. His ex could have asked for the full amount for day care, but she is willing to go half with him, she can't be that bad. I know everyone's situation is different...but he is very lucky she didn't go after him for spousal support. My advice to him was to pay half or take the chance of going to court and having his CS adjusted a bit higher. Let me make one thing clear here...anyone can be a father...but it takes someone special to be a daddy.

When I got divorced, the judge didn't give a damn what my ex made in pay. My CS was based on how my children were accustomed to living before the divorce. I'm sure it's that way everywhere...if not, then the state I lived in (NJ) put the children's welfare first. This is what he should be doing instead of complaining about paying half for day care, summer camp or whatever. Those kids need this in their life right now...day care is great if you find one you have investigated and is good. The children will benefit from it, not to mention be happier.

I just don't like it when father's say " Well the CS I give my ex should take care of day care, extra this and extra that". That's alot of BS...because there are alot of extra's the children need as they grow, and CS just doesn't cut it. I had to get a second job to give my kids the extra's they needed and wanted. I don't believe that children should be without just because their parents are divorced and mommy can't afford to buy things for them, or daddy won't give extra. Kids suffer enough with divorce...I know this because I lived it. I think he should do whatever it takes to make sure his children get what they need and want. Even if it takes a second job to provide it.

Sorry, this is just a touchy subject with me...and my heart does not go out to fathers in these situations. Especially if their complaining about money....

 

[stealth2]

When I got divorced, the judge didn't give a damn what my ex made in pay. My CS was based on how my children were accustomed to living before the divorce. I'm sure it's that way everywhere...if not, then the state I lived in (NJ) put the children's welfare first.

That's actually incorrect. CS is calculated based on income - even in NJ. In fact, NJ uses both parents' incomes in the calculation.

 

[mpfups]

Thanks for the people that supported me on here..Im sorry for yelling at Hex but he was a jerk for coming off on me like that..He knows nothing about me or my situation....

My ex is not getting a permanent full time job for the last time..This is a summer job..It ends when the school year begins...I thought i previously posted this..

Also i was given 5 days notice of this...I was told by HER if i didnt agree that shed take me to court...How is that fair...My lawyer tells me i need 30 days notice of this & have the right to refuse...Now cuz i refused shes calling me & harassing me leaving vulgar messages etc etc on my answering machine (Great mother)...

I have the kids the same amount of time as my ex...I have the kids 15 days a month & she has them the other give or take when the months are shorter or longer....I pay her 125 in CS....This was by Md guidelines...They based her salary off 20K a year cuz shes capable of making that much..She has made it clear to everyone thats he dont want to work & wants to live off me...My lawyer saw through this...She didnt get alimony cuz she did work part time throughout our marriage so that nixed that...

I mean look, i dont ask her for NO money & i have the kids as much as she does..I have the FAMILY house that we all lived in..I pay that..I pay all medical bills & i buy the kids clothing, toys etc..But somehow Mr Perfect hex thinks im a bad father for all this...Man id hate to see if he really saw a deadbeat dad....

I have a an excellent job that pays well but why should i be punished for that.??? I gurantee i pay more than my share of the bargain....

 

[mpfups]

Vee Gee - She did try ALIMONY (Spousal Support) and was DENIED do you all not read my posts?!? And she doesnt have the kids more than me..Where are you getting this at......We have joint physical & shared custoday....50/50 what dont you & hex understand????

Because my ex is a lazy S.O.B. means that a hard working father like me has to pay her for this..Give me a break....I busted my rear end to get a job like this..Its not my fault she was too dumb or lazy not to get one as good or better...I feel like you are all persecuting me cuz im not paying her this astronomical amount of money....

 

[VeeGee]

That's actually incorrect. CS is calculated based on income - even in NJ. In fact, NJ uses both parents' incomes in the calculation.

Maybe that's how it is now in NJ...but back in 1990, when I was divorced, my ex put up a fight in court telling the judge he couldn't afford the CS ordered by the court. My ex was not making alot of money back then. The judge's answer to him was this.... " You were able to support the children when you and your wife were living together as husband and wife, you will continue to support them as they were accustomed to living before divorce. Furthermore, your expenses were much higher before you decided to get divorced, and you were able to make ends meet. Do not stand here before me and tell me you cannot afford the CS ordered by this court. He also went on to say...." you will not only pay CS, but you will also pay for any extra after school care or day care in full. He was also ordered to maintain a life insurance policy for our children for $100,000. I also got alimony on top of that...my income was not calculated in the CS because I just lost my job. My ex even paid for my lawyer and all court costs. The laws on divorce must have changed since then.

 

[hexeliebe]

Can this happen? Doesnt sound right! Shes money hungry...I thought CHILD SUPPORT was for this sort of thing...

I really don't give a rat's ass if you you want to yell at me or not. If you'll come back in a few weeks and read your post again you'll see how it sounds. Just look at the above passage. Now honestly, doesn't it sound a bit whiney?

O.K. maybe not to you. But I've had a lot longer than you hearing sob stories of men who bitch about paying for child support while all the time buying a new boat, or the fastest new computer.

I mean look, i dont ask her for NO money & i have the kids as much as she does..I have the FAMILY house that we all lived in..I pay that..I pay all medical bills & i buy the kids clothing, toys etc..But somehow Mr Perfect hex thinks im a bad father for all this...Man id hate to see if he really saw a deadbeat dad....

Even in your last post all I hear is "I...I...I". and you're very wrong about me bubba. The people who have spent time on this board know my history so I won't repeat it. I'll just tell you that if you've ever lived under a bridge so you could save enough money to pay your child support then and only then have you earned the right to judge me.

Now read the next passage.

I have a an excellent job that pays well but why should i be punished for that.???

Again, I,I,I....My question is "Why should your children be punished fo it?"

Until you post something other than whinning I'll keep my opinion of you. Because I still haven't heard anything about how this may affect your daughters and as far as I'm concerned, you and your ex can piss in the wind. It's your daughters that matter.

 

[mpfups]

Md law says they base CS on the 2 income not the welfare of the children

 

[mpfups]

Whatever hex...Just stay out of this conversation..You are wanted in here..You are too stuck on yourself

 

[hexeliebe]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

 

[VeeGee]

Vee Gee - She did try ALIMONY (Spousal Support) and was DENIED do you all not read my posts?!? And she doesnt have the kids more than me..Where are you getting this at......We have joint physical & shared custoday....50/50 what dont you & hex understand????

Because my ex is a lazy S.O.B. means that a hard working father like me has to pay her for this..Give me a break....I busted my rear end to get a job like this..Its not my fault she was too dumb or lazy not to get one as good or better...I feel like you are all persecuting me cuz im not paying her this astronomical amount of money....

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was hard on you...didn't mean to sound like that. I never said you were a bad father, I think your a good father...but your not paying HER, your paying for CS for YOUR children. Alot of men don't pay anything and I have to give you credit for doing what you can. But if you allow her to take you to court, you may end up paying more. Just pay half the day care and be done with it. That's all I was trying to tell you. I don't think you should be paying more, I just think your lucky you don't have to. I have to commend you for being a good dad.

 

[mpfups]

VEE GEE - I guess my main beef is that my ex doesnt use the money i give her for the kids....She parties all the time..The kids are old enough to tell me..Theyd ont see any of it..The kids come to my house in crappy clothes...My ex is out partying every weekend with her friends...

When i asked her kindly where the momey was going to she jumped all over me...She did this cuz she knows its not going to the kids but to her lover (which is a chic) so that makes thing even more wild....

So im giving my ex money to keep up her lifestyle..Not the kids...

 

[mpfups]

Well atleast in Md courts see things more 50/50 & not for the woman like the old days..Alot of good decent fathers are being crippled by stupid CS laws that are at times unfair & unwarranted...Alot of women dont wanna work & want to get a big payday..I have seen it all to close up for myself..This is not say men are perfect either..There are alot of deadbeat men out there i know but there are an increasing amount of deadbeat moms out there that wanna sit on their u know whats & collect CS & use it for themselves....I know it all to well now

 

[VeeGee]

VEE GEE - I guess my main beef is that my ex doesnt use the money i give her for the kids....She parties all the time..The kids are old enough to tell me..Theyd ont see any of it..The kids come to my house in crappy clothes...My ex is out partying every weekend with her friends...

When i asked her kindly where the momey was going to she jumped all over me...She did this cuz she knows its not going to the kids but to her lover (which is a chic) so that makes thing even more wild....

So im giving my ex money to keep up her lifestyle..Not the kids...

mpfups....now I know where all that anger comes from. But you cannot be sure the money is going on her partying or on her lover...there is no proof. Mpfups...sending the kids to you in crappy clothes is a thing a woman does so the ex goes out and buys the kids more clothes lol. My present husband's ex did the exact same thing, she'd send her son to us looking like a pauper, so my husband, would go out and buy him a wardrobe of clothing to go back home with lol. It was her way of making sure the kid got extra. When we caught on to her, my husband would leave the clothes, toys etc at our home for him when he came to visit. Not too long after, he was sent with the nice clothing we knew he had. Now, as far as your children being old enough to tell you they don't see any of the money. How could they when it's sent to your ex? They cannot possibly know where the money is going to. I learned from my own experiences that children will go back and forth to both parents with tall tales...it's being done out of spite and anger for divorcing. My kids are grown now and young adults, they told me all the things they did out of anger to me and my ex...because they were so mad at us for getting a divorce, which is understandable. I'm not saying your children are lying, but I'm sure they are angry and hurt over this. Time will heal everyone's wounds.

 

[theother]

theother....you said, " My point is that we don't know the whole situation so we shouldn't assume that he is a bad father because he "only" pays $600 a month."

It's true, no one knows the entire situation...but no one implied he was a bad father.

**I don't know. Hex's post was pretty harsh. He said posters like OP make him sick. He basically said that the children couldn't survive on that amount of CS and that the OP's stupidity, pride, and pettiness will make his children suffer. Your post basically said he wasn't thinking of his children's best interests and that he couldn't see that his children are suffering. That sure sounds like people are implying that he is a bad father. Sure, it wasn't said directly in those words, but that isn't the meaning of implying now, is it?**

From his post, all I heard was him "complaining" about going half with day care for the children. Not to mention his ex partying all the time. All he did was complain...and all I was trying to tell him was the children's best interest should be his concern...not the money he has to shell out for day care!

**Yes, everyone should be concerned about their children's best interests. However, I reiterate that not everyone believes that daycare is in the best interests of children. I would complain too if I was made to pay for something that I was morally against. And I would also be concerned if the mother of my children was living an unhealthy lifestyle. CP's complain on this board all the time about deadbeat NCP's. If you can't gripe on an anonymous message board, where can you gripe?**

She works and has the children most of the time. She's even willing to change her hours at work to accomadate her children's time in day care.

**Where did you get this from? The original post says that the CP's schedule change is the REASON that the kids now have to go to daycare.**

His ex could have asked for the full amount for day care, but she is willing to go half with him, she can't be that bad.

**I never said she was bad. In fact, I don't think I said anything about her at all. I think you might be getting defensive, putting yourself in this situation.**

I know everyone's situation is different...but he is very lucky she didn't go after him for spousal support.

**How do you know he is lucky? Maybe she did go after spousal support and was denied. Maybe they weren't married long enough for her to think she would get it. Maybe she was at fault in the divorce and they live in an at fault state. Who knows? You make it sound like he should be grateful like he got away with something. CS has nothing to do with SS, or at least it shouldn't.**

My advice to him was to pay half or take the chance of going to court and having his CS adjusted a bit higher.

**My advice was the same.**

Let me make one thing clear here...anyone can be a father...but it takes someone special to be a daddy.

**What are you trying to say? That not paying half of daycare will mean that he is not special enough to be a daddy? What are you implying?**

When I got divorced, the judge didn't give a damn what my ex made in pay. My CS was based on how my children were accustomed to living before the divorce.

**I agree with Momma-tiger that this is probably not a true statement. Even if it was, I wouldn't think that it was right. Everyone's standard of living will go down after a divorce. It is unavoidable because you just can't support two households in the same style that you can support one. It is unfair to think that a NCP should be forced to live in poverty so that the original household is not effected. No, the children should not be made to suffer but that is not the same thing as expecting both the CP and the NCP to tighten their belts due to the new circumstances. If you want your children to be completely uneffected by divorce, don't get divorced.**

I'm sure it's that way everywhere...if not, then the state I lived in (NJ) put the children's welfare first. This is what he should be doing instead of complaining about paying half for day care, summer camp or whatever. Those kids need this in their life right now...day care is great if you find one you have investigated and is good. The children will benefit from it, not to mention be happier.

**Again, I'm not sure that balking at paying for daycare equates to not putting the children's welfare first. It sounds like you are very pro-daycare, not everyone is. In regards to things like summer camp or whatever, not everyone can afford that, married or not. Besides, all these extras that you seem to think are necessities are dependent on the parent's budget in intact families. Do parents lose the right to decide what they can afford when they get divorced? If you can't afford summer camp, does that make you a bad parent? Do you have to give your kids music lessons if it means not paying your rent? My mother was poor and couldn't afford the thousand dollars required to allow me to be a cheerleader. Is she a bad person because of it? I still say that if you barely could afford to give your kids something when you are married, then you are not going to be able to afford it when you are divorced and it's unfair to blame this on an NCP's "unwillingness" to provide for his children. If the NCP cannot stretch his budget to accomadate something, this does not mean that he is a souless demon. If you want your kids to have the best that money can buy then pick a guy with a larger income the next time you decide to have a child. Now, of course, if he can totally afford it and is still not giving his children things that will enrich their lives then he is a deadbeat. However, that is not the impression I get from someone that pays his support and has his children almost halftime. **


I just don't like it when father's say " Well the CS I give my ex should take care of day care, extra this and extra that". That's alot of BS...because there are alot of extra's the children need as they grow, and CS just doesn't cut it. I had to get a second job to give my kids the extra's they needed and wanted. I don't believe that children should be without just because their parents are divorced and mommy can't afford to buy things for them, or daddy won't give extra.

**Yes, he was unaware that CS does not include daycare. We set him straight. As for the other things, I address that in my last paragraph. Besides, since he has his children almost halftime, I am sure that he spends money on them over and above CS. I find it interesting that you say that "mommy can't afford to buy things for them, or daddy won't give extra." What if the situation is that both parents can't afford to buy things? Why is it always that the NCP won't as opposed to the NCP can't? Good for you that you got a second job to pay for your kids' extras. My NCP has two jobs just so he can pay his CS and all the debts that his ex left him with. But this post isn't about us, is it?**

Kids suffer enough with divorce...I know this because I lived it. I think he should do whatever it takes to make sure his children get what they need and want. Even if it takes a second job to provide it.

**He should get a second job while she is working part-time? That seems a little biased. When would he get to see his children if he works 80 hours a week? Remember, we are not talking about children that are not being taken care of. Now, (somehow) we are talking about extras or perks. I'm sure that they would rather see him then get anything extra. Of course kids suffer with divorce, it is unavoidable. Monetary rewards will not negate this fact. It's sad, but true. Besides, since when has it been the parents job to bend over backwards to accomodate a child's wants? Yes, they should do whatever it takes to take care of their children (which would be daycare costs if it is necessary) , but wants are not needs. My mother did her best to see that my reasonable wants were taken care of but if she couldn't afford something then, well, she just couldn't afford it. End of story.**

Sorry, this is just a touchy subject with me...and my heart does not go out to fathers in these situations. Especially if their complaining about money....

**I guess we are just different then. It is a touchy subject for me too but I try to see and feel for both sides. My best friend is a CP with a jerk of an ex-husband who never sees his kid. My sister picked a loser of a father for her kid. He doesn't pay nearly enough in CS but can buy a new car. These are men that I have no sympathy for and I feel that they should be villified. However, I do have sympathy for my male friends who are diligently paying their child support and have limited to no access to their children. These men cannot be lumped together just like the OP cannot be lumped together with deadbeats just because he is concerned about the extra drain on his income. Yes, in a perfect world we would all have enough money to give our kids everything that their hearts desire. But, we live in the real world where we are all constrained by our budgets. Married couples have to make sure that they can afford what they give their kids. I am sure they complain about not being able to make ends meet all the time. CP's complain all the time about how they don't get enough CS or how they are not given anything extra. These people aren't looked down upon. They are given sympathy. Why are NCP's the only people who are not allowed to worry if they have enough to eat at the end of the month?**

 

[theother]

You guys type fast!

Wow, what the heck happened while I was composing that post? Well, I am sure most of what I said will now be proven wrong by the flurry of posts that have just happened. I guess I should type faster or not take any breaks next time. lol