Interpretation of summer parenting time

[wileybunch]

Thanks, proud_parent, humusluvr, and mommyof4.

First, I would advise your husband to do everything he can to establish a rapport with the counselor. I have seen a former CP try this tactic of alienation using a therapist as a (perhaps unwitting) pawn. While it did not work out for CP as she had hoped (the judge made it absolutely clear that the counselor had NO authority to excuse the CP from the Court's order), the child did not benefit at all from sessions with the therapist, as they did not focus on the child's emotional health but rather on the skewed view of the child's health as painted (unilaterally) by CP.

He's had this counselor throughout the years as he's dealt with alienation issues with his ex. Ex had blocked visits for children (even though this counselor has been specifically named now twice in COs), but DH was able to go throughout the years and counselor is very familiar w/Mom's tactics. Still, DH has to make sure with Mom's latest round of interpretations where counselor is at with things. His DS has been to counselor once together with an older sister (who was there apparently b/c she carries the insurance for counseling) and Mom said counselor said DS doesn't need counseling. I mentioned this to counselor and he said he did not say that. Mom lies a lot, she really does, but DH still needs to keep in close touch w/counselor. The counselor has been very good over the years. We have an appt this evening for twin stuff so he'll probably use some time to go over a few things w/counselor re: this situation. We think she thinks she has the counselor in her back pocket, but we think the counselor is trying to keep the focus of each parent's relationship with their child between them and the child as it should be and Mom takes that to mean DD will get whatever her wishes are. B/c counselor isn't going to be hard-nosed like a judge, it seems like Mom has also taken this to mean she does nothing wrong.

This bit concerns me, because Mom has set a trap for Dad. While I do not advocate him rolling over in the face of Mom's manipulation, Dad needs to handle the situation delicately because of the possible embarrassment and upset to DD. It won't serve her best interests for there to be a scene.

If I were in your DH's shoes, I'd think seriously about switching the weekend of the birthday party. I would propose one or two alternate dates and not leave it up to CP (and ABSOLUTELY not up to daughter) to suggest them. I would state that it is inappropriate to involve a child in any discussion of visitation or custody, and that he will therefore deal only with CP on this matter. I would conclude by requesting a response no later than 'X' day and time, else he will be exercising his parenting time as ordered.

If CP forces the big showdown, Dad should play it as low key as possible: i.e., show up dressed casually, with present in hand, as if he were invited to the party. Announce to CP (quietly, cheerfully, and if possible away from onlookers) that he is there to pick up kiddo for scheduled parenting time. If CP refuses, hand her kiddo's present and walk away silently...and then file petition for contempt first thing Monday. Let the partygoers wonder why kiddo's Mom would turn her own Dad away from her 13th birthday party.

School is out next Weds which is when the summer schedule should kick in that Mom's already saying she won't allow and had DD fill out the summer schedule the same as it is during the year -- 1st/3rd weekends, weeknight dinner date. And, at that Mom's already complaining that DH has "so many weekends" coming up but that's because he had to work around dates Mom said DD is unavailable. So I don't know what weekend he would swap for at this point. They are also under a "honk and seatbelt" rule. His ex had caused problems during exchanges and had come over to our home when DH was alone (kids weren't there) and pushed her way into our home some years ago and he sought a restraining order and then agreed to do a mutual civil restraining order ie. honk and seatbelt rule so there's no contact during drop off/pick up (which is very nice). That's why she referred to not sitting outside honking horn on Sat. We also already gave DD birthday present around the time of her 4/30 b'day . She already celebrated b'day with us and with her Mom's family back in April. This is a sleepover b'day party w/friends so not something he could just walk into.

 

[CJane]

Well, I couldn't decipher the info in Mom's letter vs the info you added to explain the craziness of Mom's letter.

But could you remind me why the 31st is so VERY important to Dad? I mean, why is this even something he's fighting w/Mom about? YES, it was underhanded and sneaky to plan the party for that weekend. And YES she's being a total hosebeast about it. But why is Dad playing along?

 

[proud_parent]

And, at that Mom's already complaining that DH has "so many weekends" coming up but that's because he had to work around dates Mom said DD is unavailable. So I don't know what weekend he would swap for at this point.

If it were me, I would still select an alternate weekend and submit to her in writing, even if it happens to be one that Mom has arbitrarily deemed unavailable. Choose a weekend where the conflict is not one involving DD's friends or extended family. That would demonstrate that DH is making an effort to resolve conflicts in DD's interest. Let Mom explain to a judge why the proposed alternative was unreasonable.

They are also under a "honk and seatbelt" rule.

I see.

Well, Mom has determined the rules of engagement. She won't get far faulting Dad for abiding by them, especially if he attempts a reasonable workaround (i.e., trade weekends) and she refuses.

Keep us posted.

 

[proud_parent]

But could you remind me why the 31st is so VERY important to Dad?

I was under the impression that it was Dad's court-ordered weekend parenting time. But I admit that my eyes glazed over midway through Mom's email rant, so I may have that wrong.

 

[Humusluvr]

They are also under a "honk and seatbelt" rule. His ex had caused problems during exchanges and had come over to our home when DH was alone (kids weren't there) and pushed her way into our home some years ago and he sought a restraining order and then agreed to do a mutual civil restraining order ie. honk and seatbelt rule so there's no contact during drop off/pick up (which is very nice). That's why she referred to not sitting outside honking horn on Sat.

Wow, so you're under a honking rule, but she's telling you not to honk. What universe does this lady live in? I am amazed at the circular logic!

 

[CJane]

I was under the impression that it was Dad's court-ordered weekend parenting time. But I admit that my eyes glazed over midway through Mom's email rant, so I may have that wrong.

Yeah, that's not the interpretation I got. I thought Dad got 1st and 3rd weekends. The 31st is a 5th weekend. Unless Dad still gets his 'extra' weekends - wiley does he?

And WHY do y'all get out of school so late? My kids have been out since June 16, and that was INCLUDING making up snow days!

 

[Humusluvr]

Yeah, that's not the interpretation I got. I thought Dad got 1st and 3rd weekends. The 31st is a 5th weekend. Unless Dad still gets his 'extra' weekends - wiley does he?

And WHY do y'all get out of school so late? My kids have been out since June 16, and that was INCLUDING making up snow days!

May 16th?

We go til June 6th. But we let our students out for weeks on end. They wouldn't come anyways. Or on Cinco de Mayo, or the Mexican Revolution Day. Crazy.

 

[CJane]

May 16th?

We go til June 6th. But we let our students out for weeks on end. They wouldn't come anyways. Or on Cinco de Mayo, or the Mexican Revolution Day. Crazy.

Yeah, May 16. I'm not doing well w/calendars lately.

We start Mid-August and get very little time off... no spring break, no columbus day, etc.

 

[mommyof4]

May 16th?

We go til June 6th. But we let our students out for weeks on end. They wouldn't come anyways. Or on Cinco de Mayo, or the Mexican Revolution Day. Crazy.

Ours are out on June 4. Luckily, TX finally said that kids could not start school before 8-27 (I think that's the correct date). We had kids starting Aug 2. and not getting out until June. It was ridiculous. Of course, they were out every other Monday or Friday for who knows what (annoy the crap out of parents day???), every conceivable day that MIGHT be a holiday somewhere in the world, and then days just because.

 

[wileybunch]

Yeah, that's not the interpretation I got. I thought Dad got 1st and 3rd weekends. The 31st is a 5th weekend. Unless Dad still gets his 'extra' weekends - wiley does he?

And WHY do y'all get out of school so late? My kids have been out since June 16, and that was INCLUDING making up snow days!

The 5th weekends were given up long ago by accident. They used to have every other weekend, but Mom would play dumb about the schedule and oops schedule something on Dad's weekend and then not have a trade for it so it was changed to specifically 1st/3rd back in 2001. They didn't address 5th weekends so they were lost. Their 6 mos of make up visits were done in Feb.

Back in April, Dad asked for the 5th weekend so we could take DD out in the new trailer we'd gotten. We've been on several trips in the trailer and she hadn't been yet. This is the 3rd or 4th vacation time he's tried to use during the school year that Mom has shot down. She hasn't allowed any. Dad also had less time with DD in May b/c of choir trip and holiday weekend she went w/Mom. Since he accommodated the sleepover, plans have changed so we are not going out of town, but I had planned to have kids' pictures taken for Dad's Father's Day present. DD knows about the pictures, but not that it's that weekend b/c the weekend was already contentious. Anyway, DD can have her sleepover at this point, Dad accommodated that, but Mom then went and scheduled another party for 4PM that day (soccer). And, DD still can't come even after that, it's just "no" every which way for that weekend. While Mom says they can work out another weekend, in the same letter she's already throwing a fit over the 50% summer schedule and that Dad will have DD more weekends than her in June (that's b/c of the weekdays Mom blocked out in June saying DD isn't available b/c of babysitting at their home).

Our schools are out 6/4 (if not in year round) and we start last Mon in Aug. We get 2 weeks for Christmas break and 1 week for Spring break. No snow days. LOL

 

[Humusluvr]

Ours are out on June 4. Luckily, TX finally said that kids could not start school before 8-27 (I think that's the correct date).

I think so too. We were one of those schools that started uber early. And teachers a week before that.

Of course, they were out every other Monday or Friday for who knows what

Ours are, because this district has accepted that fact that the kids won't come on certain days. Since we're on the Mexican border, the kids go out to Mexico on those holidays, and they drink til very late (or their parents do ) and they won't come back.

(annoy the crap out of parents day???),

ha ha my favorite!

every conceivable day that MIGHT be a holiday somewhere in the world, and then days just because.

yep. plain lazy.

 

[wileybunch]

This is the background of the 5th weekend in May:

4/28/08

B,

This is notify you that I plan to have DD the 5th weekend in May as part of my school-year vacation time. Please let me know if you have anything scheduled for her that weekend that I haven't been told about.

I will have her from Friday, May 30, 2008 at 5PM until 8:15PM Sunday, June 1, 2008.

Also, please provide the Knott's Berry Farm parent information and itinerary for Vanessa's choir trip to Knott's Berry Farm this coming weekend.


On Sat 5/10 at 7:45AM as we were getting ready to leave for son's Little League game, she called DH's cell phone. He let it go to voice mail. In there she says she is going to have DD's b'day party that weekend. It's the 1st free weekend since her b'day 4/30 to have a party so, no, you can't have her that weekend.

DH called her back a while later, went to VM, said sorry you knew I was having her that weekend. She called him back left VM saying she thought he would be man enough to pick up phone when she called, but she's having her b'day party that weekend, period.

On Mon when DD came for week-night visit, he said he could do Sat 10AM pick up when party was over and that was that, seemed like reasonable compromise. Then the next weekend he finds out that Mom had scheduled soccer party for that Sat, too, at her house. DD doesn't consider these soccer teammates "friends". She feels actually a little out of sorts except for one other girl that's not hispanic, the parents mostly speak Spanish (some only speak Spanish), but her prior team didn't move up in age so she had to get onto a new team and doesn't want to play club soccer b/c of time commitment so doesn't have a lot of choice for now. She will be playing on her middle school's new team next fall instead. DH thinks Mom did this as a power play b/c he was supposed to have DD that weekend and had worked it out so DD could have her sleepover party AND come to Dad's so Mom pulled the soccer party out next.

 

[proud_parent]

This is notify you that I plan to have DD the 5th weekend in May as part of my school-year vacation time.

What does the court order state with respect to how school-year vacation time is to be arranged? Are dates as mutually agreed between the parties? Or are dates as determined upon Dad's written notice to Mom? If the latter, how far in advance of exercising parenting time is Dad required to provide notice? Has Dad exercises any school-year vacation time this academic year, and if so, how much does he have left?

The wording of the order on this subject will govern whether Dad ought to push on the subject of this weekend, or let it go until the next denial of parenting time by Mom.

She's already tipped her hand that she intends to fight the summer schedule, so Dad might have ample other evidence of contempt if he just sits tight for a few weeks...

 

[wileybunch]

Well, I couldn't decipher the info in Mom's letter vs the info you added to explain the craziness of Mom's letter.

I made it more obvious where my notes were.

This is what DH's current plan is. He's going to call his ex and ask her to check her email, that he's sent her one. He's going to be low-key and polite, won't "get into it" with her. She's been calling his cell phone several times this morning and called him at work, but someone erroneously told her he wasn't in today not realizing he was there and she hasn't called his work phone again. So he figures she's spun up. If she presses to have a convo, he's going to say he prefers she read the email, that he doesn't want to get into any more misquoting.

This is the email he has so far, but it's just a draft:


B,

I received your letters and while my previous correspondence is clear and doesn’t need to be reiterated, I will just respond to a portion of your letters.

I will be there on Saturday 5/31 at 10AM to pick Vanessa up as you’ve been previously notified. I made that accommodation in an attempt to smooth waters, but I will not make further accommodations for additional plans you've made for that weekend.

As for the summer schedule that starts a week from tomorrow, I made the best summer schedule I could to both comply with the court order giving me the discretion to have up to half the summer break time and also keeping in place times when you told me Vanessa would not be available. So far you have not offered an alternative arrangement of time except to say you won't allow the summer time. But, if you come up with something before this weekend in advance of the summer time starting, I will promptly look it over. Otherwise, I will assume that the schedule I provided was the best way to arrange the summer shared parenting time.

Please also clarify what schedule the babysitting is for. You previously said it was for summer school. Which summer school? Public middle/high school?

[note: DH is wondering about this b/c the dates she's given that DD is unavailable don't match middle/high school summer school dates -- that's only 4 weeks, not 6 like she said)

 

[wileybunch]

What does the court order state with respect to how school-year vacation time is to be arranged? Are dates as mutually agreed between the parties? Or are dates as determined upon Dad's written notice to Mom? If the latter, how far in advance of exercising parenting time is Dad required to provide notice? Has Dad exercises any school-year vacation time this academic year, and if so, how much does he have left?

The wording of the order on this subject will govern whether Dad ought to push on the subject of this weekend, or let it go until the next denial of parenting time by Mom.

She's already tipped her hand that she intends to fight the summer schedule, so Dad might have ample other evidence of contempt if he just sits tight for a few weeks...

Dad hasn't exercised any of the school-year vacation time -- Mom blocked the spring break vacation, another vacation to just p/u DD a few hours early on Fri that would be DH's normal weekend to go to our church's semi-annual conference (saying DD would be beyond upset to miss a soccer game), and I think there was 1 more. Dad has always provided at least 30 days' notice.

This is the SUMMER/VACATIONS part of his parenting plan:

Provided it causes no disruptions to the children's schooling, both parents shall be allowed to have the children during their respective vacations.

The parents agree to discuss their individual vacation plans in order to make arrangements for the children's care during their absence and/or have the children during their respective vacations.

Father shall be allowed two (2) weeks of uninterrupted vacation time with the children during the year, as well as up to one-half (1/2) of the children's summer vacation time according to what he can fit into his schedule.

During each of the children's summer vacations and/or track breaks, either party may take the children on a vacation so long as there is thirty (30) days advance notice to the other party. If a vacation time is not exercised, then the normal visitation schedule will apply.